Also having more objectives helps to prevent the sort of steamrolling we’re seeing, a couple may be closer together and therefor frequently taken as a group but if instead of only being able to hold all/two thirds of the caps you can hold say four out of ten and hold on longer, even if losing.
It could either help prevent or in some cases amplify it. I deliberately laid out the idea with the intent that teams unaware of their flanks could see their rear spawn zones captured and thus find themselves encircled on all sides unless they stage a breakout operation, just like in reality.
True, when properly balanced it would help a good bit because it’s hard to hold all zones at once and when you do you’re stretched thin, and not watching your flanks adds a lot of weaknesses, but if you manage to hold all the zones without losing the entire team it would significantly add to the challenge of retaking the match and making a comeback. Overall an imperfect idea that with more of this sort of productive discussion would definitely help the game, at the very least I think we can agree that a copy-paste COD domination just isn’t that good.
The problem is some people see this as them having a major amount of skill, let’s be honest that sitting outside the detection zone and point and clicking people in their spawn is the least skillful thing in the game. Every match of 10.7 to 11.7 Russia ground realistic I am getting forced to leave within 5 minutes due to spawn campers.
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I know that feeling all too well, especially because I am one of the few scouting because if I don’t my team dies even faster from the lack of intel
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Exactly, you see the point. This is a piece of my broader CAS reformation proposal, FYI. Each cap zone under control of a team would have several AI-controlled gun emplacements on it with generally terrible accuracy, but enough to keep lone wolf campers occupied for a while. Neutral cap zones taken over by any team do not automatically build the emplacements - people have to drive up to the gun emplacements and build them no differently than using Crew Replenishment or putting down Ammo Boxes would be. All those AI targets serve as juicy cannon fodder for tanks, but especially CAS.
And every piece of CAS weaponry killing a bot instead of a player is one less screamer crying out for nerfs on the forums.
Actually genius, something like 2 AAs and 3 like 88 flaks or something, the sort of thing where you really do not want to get hit, but they have horrible accuracy whilst keeping the enemy occupied and providing some form of threat, and in order to get that defence/distraction you have to be willing to sit in the open for ten or twenty seconds. This is the sort of thing where I would absolutely love to see them try this on the dev server, it’s a good bit of work to balance and would involve map rework but that needs done anyway, and they have the time saved from making copy paste premiums.
Some would be open-top towed guns such as Pak40s, Russian 76s/57s, 17-pdrs, etc. Others would be the already-ingame stuff like 106mm RR AT guns. Still others would be in fortified pillboxes - say use the models already on the Normandy map but make their guns actually function.
These guns would scale with the BR range to remain threatening to all types of tanks.
Ideally, I would overhaul Artillery Support as a mechanic identically into Team-Wide Gun Artillery and Rocket Artillery, with three shared-cooldown uses per team of each to prevent say all 16 players dropping 32 consecutive strikes on the same cap zone. These would vary by nation as well as BR.
Imagine for example a Soviet Tier 4 player calls in an Artillery Strike with their T-34/85.
What they get is a two-minute long 310mm Katyusha saturation bombardment on the entire grid square.
With the undoing of bomb blast, rocket, and HE shell overpressure nerfing, suddenly Artillery of both varieties becomes lethal enough to MAKE people MOVE or DIE.
As you can see I have thought about this entire interlocking set of reforms for CAS and Tank gameplay for a long, long time.
I would also rename the game mode to remove the “but its Ground Battles” rhetorical argument, perhaps naming it “Joint Operations AB/RB” would be appropriate (and Naval of course with corresponding reforms would then be “Task Forces AB/RB”).
That would be actually TERRIFYING. That’d work a lot better, and enable stuff like the IS3 that is a absolute pain from the front to be destroyed, just wait until it’s on a point with like 3 other guys and drop arty there, would also work in like the battle mode to save your own cap.
No way to fix the overran spawns it will always be apart of this game.
You say as there are dozens of shooters that have managed to solve it perfectly fine. A “this is just the way it is so no point trying to fix it” mentality is how games like this die because the community is unwilling to help the devs make the game actually better.
The problem is people thinking that they are the community and are the majority, then making out that the game will die because the changes haven’t been made, yet here we are, so many years down the track.
While there are so many suggestions you could implement anything and everything, it’s all about wondering how it would affect the game, if it even needs to be done in the first place, and whether it’s going to make better players or not.
You can’t just handhold players when they are being outplayed and be fine with it.
I don’t think War Thunder is likely to die anytime soon, it still has a large playerbase and it’s pretty stable, but it has been on a significant decline especially after the AI textures scandal. That sort of mentality is mostly what takes out the veterans and active people who are trying to hold the community together, and then once they’re gone especially for games like this the toxic part of the community becomes more and more dominant and the devs become more and more reclusive. We’ve already seen that, Gaijin is kinda unwilling to respond to the community because it gets really toxic sometimes and is hard to work with.
The toxic card is overplayed in my eyes, it’s the same with the people who complain that any response is ‘mean’ or ‘not wanted’ when they start being rebuked.
That’s where those ‘drives’ to do stupid things and act as a big group go wrong.
More often than not, spawncamping is caused by the team, not watching those flanks, not communicating, and just not really paying attention. So many end up hit from the same spot that they all know about yet they’ll still cry foul.
And that’s kinda the annoying part about the current cap/spawn structure, there’s nothing that encourages the people playing like heavies and particularly slow vehicles to do one thing and the people playing the fast flankers to do another, they all just kinda go everywhere and it isn’t productive. Combined with people being unwilling to listen when you ask them to do something and you wind up with people being way too vocal about some issues, and the actual problems get called nothing when people try and talk about or fix them.
Sounds like it all revolves around players, not doing what they need to, or expecting others to do what they needed to.
It is a PvP game where teams made of up to 16 random players fight against each other.
There are no roles thus there is nothing a player is really supposed to do while in battle besides as PvP stands, killing enemy ground units. We can make a point that capping a zone is what players should do (not what they need to do) in order to win but killing enemy units also drains enemy team from tickest.
I weren’t able to find any info of what player need to do in battle (besides not breaking the rules of the game) on warthunder site or wiki. If You have that info, please share it with a proper link.
Edit: want to know what is wrong in here.
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And where did I say anything to go against that?
What’s roles got to do with it?
It’s part of what is needed to be done to win, and if people can’t grasp that, then maybe this isn’t the type of game for them.
Who’d have thought that the objectives listed in game were instructions… Or that common sense about being aware was something…
Not everything has to be listed in the wiki, or about the ToS of the game.
Honestly, every response you put out is merely trolling right now, there’s nothing genuine or based in your ramblings now, it’s all just to try start an actual argument.
It’s so desperate.
And where have I said that You have said something?
I’m just stating what WarThunder is so we can agree/disagree and understand the basics.
If players is supposed to (need to) do something, it means that there is a role he must play in a team (especially besides killing other players).
It is not needed in order to win. It allows team to win eaiser than with just killing or faster, but it is not needed.
So finally something that we can actually discuss.
Objectives listed at the start of the battle are outdated and mostly resolve around capturing and holding the point. The best way to hold the point is to kill any enemy that would have a chance to cap it.
The best way to kill or hold any enemy that can cap any point is to actually not allow any enemy to leave the spawn thus anyone spawncamping is actually doing what he is needed to do (as what objectives listed in the game say).
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You’re replying to me, directly… Funny that…
You’re just throwing out excuses and emboldening those who find issue with the game, ignorant to anything else being a factor.
Nope.
It’s an awareness situation, that doesn’t need a ‘role’ as you put out.
It’s needed to avoid being flanked and spanked, with the resulting spawn camping being the end result.
It’s all part of the game, it’s not ‘not needed’ as you’re in the wrong thread if you even think that is a sufficient way of explaining away your interaction here.
You never discuss anything but what you want to deride into your own angle, that’s how it goes…
That’s why whenever I see you I KNOW that you’re not here for anything other than bickering and beration.
And you can’t hold that point if you can’t get to it because you’re spawncamped.
It doesn’t have to be listed as an objective.
That’s just your opinion, but if it’s not listed as an objective, how does anyone know that that is the objective? /s