Hello Anto.
I have the video ready, because I do not have USSR, and my german Mi-24 and Mi-8 are stock I will show you gameplay of the UH-1D (8.3) with the AGM-22 atgm (3.5km range).
Still when trying to use the mi8 I acknowledge that with ussr helis its difficult to dodge spaa bullets, but thats not spaa fault, but ussr heli designers, you have plenty of better and maneuvable helis at that br to choose apart from that big ass mi 8/mi 24.
IRIS-T is now nerfed, so it’s much easier for pilots to kill someone. Especially on maps like Finland. Oh I wish Gaijin will respect their players at least one time and took back that “buff of IRCM” from 4km back to 10km
I am sorry but, this is a skill issue. No one likes being told that, but I seen many CAS players do well on helis and multi fighters. Even me with SPAA experience, I have been outplayed.
There is no SPAA overload, it just depends on pure skills and knowledge on both sides.
Ozelot got smokes (can mess even laser seeker) + map cover tho?
And at 10.7 you will face 2s6 which can eliminate your guided bombs. And you if you get too close. Also tram sometimes gets uptiered to 11.7 with adats (m113 chassis), tor m1, hq17. One has tf2 spy missiles and other 2 got 12/15km range sams + display all targets at once.
You can point near the smoke and usually knock them out.
Possible. Can usually be worked around by going at steeper angles or using 2 bombs.
Yeah, in a full uptier, the enemy will be stronger.
smoke somehow stopping splash damage of 272kg TNT equivalent
that premise hinges entirely on having russia in your team. better argument would be OSAs.
A-6E has no reason to ever get into range of gun or IR armed SPAA and if it happens, A-6E player made severe lapse in judgment.
okay, how does that relate to the Ozelot?
Might be a “hit” as well if ozelot isnt close enough to impact point. Especially after high explosive damage changes.
Those bombs are almost as fast as mavericks, tunguska will have more than enough time to take out both of them.
This applies to ozelot as well.
Developers, when are you going to stop nerfing SPAA and Ground Gameplay?
In the latest patch you added yet more ldircm helis and even more planes with fire and forget ammunitions, simply multiplying its presence and influence. CAS was already excessively effective, and now there is even more of it. This looks like a deliberate, systematic indirect nerf to ground gameplay.
Cas costs far too few spawn points considering how effective it is, yet ground spawn costs are not being reduced for second or thrid spawns. Neither is sp reduction for light tanks through scouting weakened in any shape or form. BRs for aircraft and helicopters are also not being reconsidered — instead, we see jets with 6 IR guided mach 2.2 agms and one 1500 pd ir guided bomb being added at 12.3.
A separate and critical issue is map design. Maps are fundamentally not built for playing the newly added multiple vehicle spaa. They are either too small so you got no choice than setting up in spawn, which is a convenient drive of less than a minute on an open flank on a lot of maps for a light tank to shoot into.
Most maps are either urban or basically BR1.0 size.
In those cramped environments SPAA has no operational space at all.
On “desert” maps, the outer areas are flat, open terrain with no cover from helicopters especially in the spawn areas.
The result is obvious: ground vehicles and SPAA have no space to move, can immediately be targeted by just putting the ground marker on the spawn and because you cant move anywhere a lot of times bombs and agms with big tnt yield can easily generate multikills making it even easier to just spawn a second plane after death. Maps are clearly designed for cas controlling the whole battle — maps in bowls with convenient hills around the ground area for cas planes to pop up behínd, fire their f&f ammunition and dive back down before spaa has any chance to score a hit - maximum safety and minimal risk — while spaas are given minimal survival chances.
Top-tier BRs 12.0–13.0 are no longer gameplay — they are punishment. There is no enjoyment left. CAS is blatantly overtuned, and ground vehiclkes have been effectively pushed out of ground battles.
Fixed it for you ;-)
But seriously, it goes both ways. now with the multiple vehicle spaa that finally most nations get (gl if youre playing israel) you at least have a decent chance to counter incoming ordinance. But Shooting down a skilled cas pilot is a whole other story. Yes, you can counter most of their ordinance usually, but the better the cas pilot gets the more youll be struggling with that. For the spaa the skill cap is reached with reacting quick enough which is basically dependent on if you radar picks him up quickly enough and whether you dont fuck up targetting all his agms quickly enough. after that theres nothing more you can do. He can just rearm and at one point something will slip through. One hit to your radar vehicle is enough.
And helis? yeah, pray you get enough sp to spawn a plane at one point, because 10 second reload for 16 jagms with 16 km range say hello to your 12 to 18 missiles you get per spaa spawn. If they are radar guided they wont hit anything if the heli just stays low. If they are ir guided he can just break los to you radar and autoflare them. if youre using saclos spaa hes got ages to dip down, break los or at least get to a height where the proxy fuze wont trigger. (or just stay out of saclos range completely)
Ozelot can drive far enough to survive. Also it sometimes can negate any splash dmg same way leopard 2a4 did when I direct hit him with kh25ml on roof. Or t72b with walleye. 264 kg of tnt can just vanish thanks to gaijin moments.
Osa, 2s6, tor m1, hq17, adats which you face (mostly first two) are all saclos sams with 10 or more km range.
That premise hinges entirely on playing vs israel, japan, france… you get the point. 2s6 was just first example that came to my mind because both 2s6 and tram share same br. Osa does the job as well, the difference is 2s6 cannons and osa limitations in really close ranges.
This entire post screams: I am mad at the new SPAA, I want them nerfed and I am going to get ChatGPT to regurgitate some nonsense sob story >:(
RNG aspect of the game is, by its nature, random and thus unreliable and as such should not form basis of any argument.
if it drives enough to survive a Skipper landing in the middle of the smoke to survive, it will leave smoke, allowing for attacking A-6E to correct the Skipper.
Read what I wrote. I didnt say SACLOS SAMs, ive said gun or IR armed SPAA. Since you said “if you get too close”, i understood it as in gun range since SACLOS missiles and their 8-10km range is anything but close range.
As previously stated, I thought your point was about 2S6 guns. Hence the OSA comparison, which is found in more TTs.
Skipper will land in middle of smoke only if its already close to target. Otherwise seeker pulls some tricks and your missile just drops nearby (very noticable on helfires).
Yes you misunderstood me because by too close I meant in missile range of those sams (osa, 2s6). Not close range, just too close, close enough.
since smoke only last 20 seconds, even if the player spotted Skipper launch at max distance, he wont immidiately smoke.
even if he did smoke twice, unless ozelot finds hard cover large enough to prevent splash damage by aiming “behind” the cover, all the A-6E player has to do is to aim on the ground next to the smoke and aim the skipper at the middle of it during the terminal approach.
not that it ultimately matters, as both of our arguments are highly scenario and player dependent.
Well yes I can agree with this, its just “oh x can do that and y can do that oh look x can also do that” and it can go on infinitely.
If they do that, they are now visible out of the smoke.
They do have a large max range. The effective range is less though. Max range of 10km will have an effective range of around 7-8km.
True.
Though at the end of it, this planes can throw out their missiles from a safe distance. Even if most of them get intercepted, the plane survives to try again.
This may come as a surprise to you, but some players actually wanna play Warthunder, and not CoD with tanks.
This is my most concerning part for these SAM systems like the Type 03 Chu SAM with a range of 50km+ I cannot hide effectively due to small map designs…These systems need large maps, or at least and extended spawn area towards the back to make it playable. A good portion of my deaths are due to tanks rushing my spawn location since thats the only place I can hide. Cant even use the radar due to how compacted the spots are with buildings and trees etc…
So yea, I agree, ,maps are designed for low to mid tiers, not for top tier vehicles. Pure CQC so wack.
EX: Struggled to find a nice spot, finally found one but thanks to the enemy team ignoring that flank. Super risky but it aint a safe spot. And there is no way im staying at spawn either…could of shot them jets sooner but I was too busy exploring for a good spot…this map…no good safe spots…tight and compact, extremely small.
I’ve noticed that since the update came out, it’s been very easy to rack up kills with a helicopter.
Most of the people using the new random SPAA feature just spawn in and blankly stare at the sky, never moving an inch.
A funny thought crossed my mind when this update came out: since everyone now has access to a free SPAA, it might indirectly cause the majority of ground players to disregard the SPAA branch in the tech tree. Since the SPAA you get access to is lower in BR than your lineup, this might ironically make life easier for CAS eventually. But it remains to be seen what’s gonna come out of it in the end.
Look. If Gaijin is known for anything, it’s not for listening to player feedback. Complaining can be fun and so even I do that sometimes, however hoping for any sort of change is useless.
So then what can be done about it? Realistically - nothing. All that’s left to do is adapt to the current game meta. A player who is able to adapt and overcome the change is more likely to find the game fun.
What the hell do you mean “nerfing aviation and helicopters”. CAS especially at top tier has never been stronger than it is now.
With the inclusion of SPICE 250s to multiple top tier aircrafts that were lacking in competent stand off munitions, every single nation now has a very solid weaponry to kill SPAAs and this will only get worse with the future addition of anti radiation missiles.
The helicopters are one of if not the most strong and oppressive CAS platforms now in game. If you play right no ARH or IR missile will touch you and SACLOS SPAAs or planes are the only danger.
CAS has never before been this potent for multiple nations lmao.
I agree, it should be counted together with tanks and not as “oh look i died to XYZ, better bring out my 70SP pantsir or similar SPAA”. Prevention instead of reaction or low SP final choice.
And under no circumstance should the aircraft spawn points outside of pure Air-to-Air loadout be reduced. Thats how we literally go back to several Kh38 capable planes flying into the battlefield 45 seconds into the match. Gaijin increasing the cost of IR missiles to ~900SP was a positive change along with the scouting nerf.
Map design is a problem for more than just the planes and SPAA. On fair few maps like for example the Sands of Sinai or large eastern europe you can have IR SPAA systems see into the airfield. While on others like again Sands of Sinai or Mozdok helicopters have an extremely annoyingly strong heli spawn that lets them bully SPAAs instantly off the pad.
On a lot of maps, multi-vehicle SPAAs have nowhere to hide or be protected to be able to both not die to enemy tanks while being able to deal with planes or helicopters currently killing the entire team.
Which is a double edged sword because flat open maps with no cover are abysmal for SPAAs as well and for example large tunisia is one of the worst maps for SPAAs like SAMPTs, BUKs or other ARH platforms because you can fire or drop guided ordinance from multipath without a care in the world for their missiles.
Now i got curious because, I do play SPAAs (and CAS), i like playing SPAAs (and CAS) and as such i play them a lot. So i was wondering how much SPAA gameplay youve done to come to a conclusion like this one and
Im willing to somewhat agree that on some city maps like Breslau or Sun City, doing CAS is somewhat annoying but keep in mind that playing SPAAs on these maps is doubly so annoying than compared to planes. The issue is that while ground vehicles do get cover from being in a city (tho you can just play around that) the SPAAs have massive radar deadzones to contend with as well due to the same cover. Its a double edged sword for both parties and generally it works out better for CAS as you have a much larger playroom to work with, letting you attack from unexpected angles or from too close a range for top tier SPAAs to work properly.
No they very much are not, this is a pure lie. SPAAs have a rather large problem in city maps because every single city map is small so youre more likely to get hunted down by tanks, the city maps offer dubious cover as youre forced on many maps into very common places that give some amount of vision to do their job and in the end, SACLOS SPAA is based around continuous line of sight, ARH SPAA can get multipathed, IR SPAA is either outranged (Elde98 or 9X on CLAWS/NASAMS) outturned (CSSA5) or defeated via breaking LOS and changing approach to defeat IOG (SLM) or just ignored fully if the the CAS in question has LDIRCM (every single IR SPAA ingame).
Well yes but not for the reason youre trying to paint here. Top tier rn is just “will i die to SPICE 250s, LMURs, JAGMs or Kh38s”. Atleast 13.0 matches arent that often onesided.
I think this entire post just boils down to you not knowing how to exploit SPAA weaknesses properly and youre going in on a rant about SPAA because you refuse to find out how to do so.
Every single SPAA with TVC missiles is pretty much useless when you get into a very close distance of them. So systems like BUKs or Asters you can generally just fly low in MP and then gunkill without being too afraid of them fighting back.
SACLOS missiles require continuous LOS to kill so either you fly low and pop up close, drop weapons and again fly low or you pull a screwdriver maneuver where you pitch and roll at the same time, making the missiles spin out and miss you.
As for IR missiles. The SPAAs are either too close range that you can outrange them (TAN SAM/TAN SAM KAI, Elde98, and 9Xs on CLAWS or NASAMS) out turn them (the CSSA5 has like 20G of overload) or break LOS and defeat IOG before popping up too close to the SPAA to do anything about it (SLM)
