Maybe you are searching for: Old ASB spawn costs.
Again?
Combined battles is the only mode in the game for people that want to PvP attackers and bombers.
If you disagrees with this one, I’d like to ask for high sp tanks in ARB with you. They would slaughter AI well lol
I have never encountered an issue with a noob SPAA player preventing me from using CAS. Have I occasionally been killed by a lucky shot? Sure. But 9/10 times a noob SPAA player shooting at me is just another free kill.
If noobs constantly spawn SPAA because of the low spawns, and they are so easy to use, why do they never get better at them? You’d think if they spawned an SPAA for 70 SP every match before they are kicked out, they would start to get some air kills considering how easy you think SPAA is
I agree, the biggest problem areas for CAS are caused by either a complete lack of SPAA options or SPAA options that are completely useless. My point is mostly aimed at the non-radar guided SPAA, as I personally see SPAA vs CAS engagements below 7.7 as the biggest issue (Not sure about top tier as I don’t play it) and I should have mentioned that in my earlier posts. From around 8.0 to 10.7 CAS and SPAA seem evenly matched, and most players are more upset about the lack of people willing to play SPAA than the abilities of the SPAA vehicles (even if they don’t realize it).
Both CAS and SPAA get significantly easier to use at higher BRs, perhaps with SPAA being easier than CAS when equipped with missiles. My point in replying to Pangolin_Fan is that unguided SPAA noobs do not have an advantage over anybody playing CAS as he states. The only vehicles he mentions are British SPAA, notably the British SPAA that can’t be easily strafed. If these vehicles are so easy to use why are players not using them? If I were given a tool that apparently requires very little or no skill to use to counter one of the most frustrating ways to die in War Thunder, why would I not use it?
No planes to hunt. No one’s gonna sit there being useless for 20min in a shilka m4, maybe even to be pushed to spawn. & another fact, SPAAs fit in the profiting logic of the game better than any other type of vehicle. They survive for a long time and get AIR kills.
For… CAS is not that frustrating? I can’t remember the last time when I was killed by CAS xD idk if we are playing with the same player base, but tanks are apparently more an issue, as they should be in ground battles.
Isn’t spawning a 300sp rocket heli, 600sp CAP or 900sp CAS and finding myself useless to the battle more frustrating?
Isn’t the short game length that does not allow for landing and resupply at the af more frustrating?
Isn’t the obviously retarded spawn radar covering to only 3km away from the battlefield more frustrating xD
Not to mention clouds and fog )
Again you come up with a reason that apparently SPAA are so good in the game, make so much money, etc. yet nobody plays them. Does it not click that SPAA being useless for the majority of a match makes them both harder to play and also significantly reduces the rewards you earn? You don’t just get RP and SL for sitting there, you have to be active.
You might not find CAS frustrating, but the majority of players I have spoken to find it extremely frustrating to die to a plane they often cannot hear, see, or respond to. The number of CAS-centric posts on the forum should make this obvious to you. Every single day, there are multiple posts about CAS, Revenge Bombing, etc. Saying that it is not frustrating to you is fine, saying it is not frustrating in general is just ignorant. I find it hard to believe you can’t remember the last time you were killed by CAS, because I have never seen a match where no player died to CAS.
I have never in my nearly 2000 hours of war thunder spawned into CAS with nothing to do. Maybe if you spawn CAS at the end of a match or when the entire team is being spawn camped, but if you spawn CAS during the match, there are always targets to kill, disable, mark for your team, etc. If there is truly nothing for you to do, then you can simply wait for more targets to spawn, fuel is not a concern except for a select few planes, so there is no reason you cannot wait and scan for new targets.
If you think it takes too long to rearm at the airfield you need to A. improve your crew skill and B. fix your skill issue. Airfields are extremely close the map and you can easily rearm in most situations in around 3 minutes. Airfields are within artillery range from the battlefield, which would be absurd in real life, realistically airfields should be significantly farther from the battlefield (not advocating for this, just saying). The alternative would be bombs respawning on your plane in the air, which would be absurd in realistic battles. Imagine a PE-8 dropping a 5000 Kg bomb every 2 or 3 minutes.
I’m not sure exactly what you are referring to by “spawn radar” but I’m going to assume you mean Airfield AA. Airfield AA has this range because it is so close to the battlefield. Beyond this range would allow the airfield to attack planes on the battlefield. If you want longer range protection from airfield AA, you need to have the airfield further away from the battlefield, which you would be opposed to considering you somehow think it already takes too long to rearm.
If you are having issues with clouds and fog, it is purely a skill issue. If you die because you crashed, accept it and learn from your mistakes. Pay attention to radar altitude, which is available on all planes. Clouds and fog work both ways, they are as equally frustrating for SPAA and players trying to spot you as they are for you.
Planes need to be spawned. Especially in 9-10.0 BRs. When to spawn is never an issue, profit is calculated by total action and total time regardless of first kill then sit or first sit then kill
Again, CAS is a REAL feature, just as one should not find 0 LT/TD/SPAA/HELI kills in a match. Moaning just because someone used up 600+sp to get a kill? Why not talk to the nuke guys “Tank Too Strong” for he spawns his tank for 100sp!
Suppressed to useless is not nothing to do. Being killed when breaking through is also useless.
Either team collapses to spawn in a rather short time. It’s a game design issue that subsequently affected planes. I’m good with reloads, but teams (happens on both sides) die before second takeoffs xD.
Helipad and air air spawn detection. Imagine it being closer to the safety range from AAA
ofc needed
Games’ short, rearms’ good. btw at supersonic BRs a ~5-10km additional range won’t change that much, especially when there’s already no game length to reload: Better be safer when both teams are performing well for us to play for longer :D
Not about crashing, but about target seeking. SPAA can always have CAS on radar, aka transparent in one way, but CAS would have to decent to below 1000m to actually see anything without considering fog, and approach to within 2km only to see through fog. In case you don’t know, buildings provide cover better against low angle attacks; GBUs won’t go far from low alts; ground hears more air than air to ground; planes are rendered as obvious light-coloured spot in the fog; dumb weapon rushing relies heavily on what a player can see when he pops up, while lack of illumination shades ground vehicles in the dirt.
this can only be skill issue when you are to call “leo2a4 can’t deal with t80bvm is skill issue. Can’t you shoot weak spots with double plane stab?”
Not only already disproven by someone else, but even if it were true, you’d be the exception, a tank usually has no way of knowing if they’re being attacked by a plane, until it is too late, and even if they do, not all tanks are equipped with a heavy machine gun which could potentially be used to shoot down planes.
Not true. No SPAA has the capability to accurately and reliably shoot at the airspawn. And at top tier, where you’ll find the longest range SPAAs, you even have maps where CAS can attack tanks the second they spawn in, while SPAAs have to wait for them to get within ~10km. And said AAs with that long of a range, are fairly trivial to dodge if shot at their max range. You could dive into the terrain, go cold, or do the slighest manoeuvre to defeat line of sight guided SAMs. (And IR missiles won’t lock until, if you’re lucky, 6km, but usually closer than that… And if you’re getting that close to the battlefield at top tier, it’s kinda your own fault for dying anyways.)
Exactly! At certain BRs, a skilled CAS pilot can ignore enemy SPAAs for the entire game, while getting kills left and right! Without there being much counterplay for the AA, who has to rely on a lucky hit, to stop the plane from murdering their team. (Or they have to hope the CAS pilot goes head on with them, and even then, depending on what armament the plane is carrying, they have a much easier time opening fire from long range, where a lot of SPAAs won’t accuratly hit, then pull away having killed the AA and survived themselves.)
…Except you know that’s not true. If it was such an easy, low risk way to deal with high value threats, then why aren’t spawn costs higher, and why are you allowed to fly back to the airfield and rearm? Seems very unbalanced to me, if that was the actual intent behind CAS. Not to mention this just not being the case at top tier. Sounds like you prefer the arcade system of spawning cas.
Closing notes… And to preface, generally I don’t like looking at K/Ds, but if someone is talking this much smack, they need to be investigated… If SPAA is sooooo easy, and soooo unbalanced, how come the only AA you have a positive air K/D on is at Rank 2? Meanwhile your K/D in some common CAS planes looks a lot better, now these kills may have been gotten in air battles… But to me it looks like CAS is performing a lot better… Whoda thunk! Oh wait… I have almost three times the amount of time played as AA, I’d like to think I know a bit about how AA works, the problem lies in how strong CAS is, how easy it is to spawn and how overtiered a lot of SPAAs are.
Longer time in game with less score = less rewards as there is a lower activity %. The formulas and calculations for this are not officially explained afaik so it could work differently, but this is my understanding. The same amount of action over a longer time scales rewards down afaik. If you have a source that disproves that then I’ll gladly accept it.
I didn’t complain or “moan” about CAS being a feature or getting kills. I enjoy playing CAS. I merely stated that you were not being truthful in saying you “can’t remember the last time you were killed by CAS”. It would be like me saying “I can’t remember the last time I was killed by a TD”. You say “TD’s are very common in game and are present in every match, so that seems hard to believe” and I respond with “You are complaining about TD’s being overpowered even though they are a game feature!” See how it makes no sense? You twisted my words to make me an anti-CAS fanatic when I’m only trying to show you are intentionally trying to undersell CAS’s capabilities in game.
Think of this same situation for a light tank. “I cannot drive straight down the middle of the map because there are tank destroyers” “My tank was destroyed when trying to push into the enemy head on” By your logic, light tanks would be useless. Have you tried to approach from a different angle? Request Team Support? Call out SPAA targets for your team? Coordinate with other CAS to overwhelm enemy SPAA? If you fly straight into the battlefield and die to SPAA, its not that SPAA is OP, its that you are doing the equivalent of driving straight into the enemy as a light tank.
My point was that in a situation where your CAS spawn is unable to make any game impact, you would be in the same situation if you were to spawn in a tank 99%. Give me a situation where as a plane you were unable to do ANYTHING (unable to attack any targets or make any game impact) and would have been able to do something as a tank. I’m sure you can give me an example of matches where you didn’t do anything because you played a certain way, but in order to improve you need to be able to say “I should have done this to avoid this situation” or “I could have done this differently and survived”. If you are able to recognize how you can play a tank differently to address different threats on the battlefield then you should be able to do the same for CAS. This isn’t to say there aren’t BS SPAA that outclass CAS at certain BRs, but even when I die to them I ask “what could I have done differently to avoid that” and I have never had a situation where I couldn’t think of some way to avoid dying or approach differently. I cannot say the same for dying to CAS in a tank. There are many times where I and others cannot find a way to avoid dying in that situation, especially with the current sound issues regarding planes in Ground RB.
I see, I still think my point stands. If you want larger spawn radar, you need further spawns. Planes shouldn’t have automatic detection of planes on their half of the map.
I understand your point, but with a max level crew it takes 10 seconds to repair and reload. I don’t understand how you could reasonably want to decrease this number any further. You can’t eliminate landing in order to rearm because it is the only chance players have to kill high-altitude aircraft like the PE-8, who would never enter engagement range if they didn’t have to take-off after rearming.
Fair enough, my perspective is from 9.0 below as that is primarily where I like to play. I don’t know enough about high tier CAS to really say anything about this so I’m not going to comment.
Edit: Also sorry if my replies came across as rude, I have a bad habit of typing forum responses after I die in game.
It’s a lost cause trying to discuss this with him. He is convinced that the vehicles he plays (CAS) are miles more difficult than the vehicles he dies to (SPAA) so he makes up nonsensical statements about the capability of SPAA to cope.
“SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.”
This statement is so absurd and incorrect that I am forced to believe he is just a troll at this point.
Not even a single player in this discussion has claim that.
You realize tank spawn are less than 2 miles apart on nearly ever map in WarThunder right? If you are (somehow) so bad at playing SPAA that you can’t shoot down a plane flying in a straight line less than 2 miles away, then you shouldn’t even be engaging in this discussion.
You claimed that.
You’re not doing too hot either, shooting down CAS… I don’t think you know enough about SPAA to be engaging in this discussion.
Normal CAS players don’t fly in a straight line. Since you think SPAA is so OP you should try not flying in a straight line.
2 miles or 3km does not account for altitude. When you hit the 5th grade and learn about the Pythagorean theorem you would know how to calculate the actual distance. Some SPAA might be able to do this if the CAS player is braindead and flies directly into the battlefield and in the case of missile AA, does not deploy any countermeasures or evasive maneuvers. Try to get a kill over 2.5 km with any unguided SPAA, bonus points if it’s over 25mm caliber. Judging by what SPAA-Chan said about your SPAA stats I’m not confident you will deliver. Planes also have access to the entire massive map, SPAA should be able to attack planes flying in their direct vicinity.
As a rule of thumb don’t call other player bad when you complain about how hard CAS is, even CAS mains will laugh at you.
You literally said “SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.”
This point you keep making about what I assume are SPAA being able to shoot from the distance of one tank spawn to another implies that you consistently fly over the friendly tank spawn while the enemy. This could be another possible explanation for your skill issue with CAS. You don’t have to fly directly towards the enemy spawn where enemy SPAA is waiting. I’m sure @SPAA-Chan will also tell you that SPAA are expecting you to fly in from that exact direction. This in combination with your straight line flying comments are pointing to a clear picture…
Skill. Issue.
oof, whenever I say this, I hit nerves and I become disliked and get insulted by certain individuals. Not gonna mention names or insult back cuz im not going to drop down to their level.
Everything about this game is skilled/knowledge based. I get hated just for saying it too, but its the hard truth. The truth hurts and no one likes it, but it is what it is. A lot of players here refuse to learn somehow and will continue crying about SPAA being OP or CAS being OP, with the exception of top tier where we still lacking better SAM systems to keep up against 10km+ A2G weapons. Everything depends on what they do and how to counter, when to counter, how to avoid.
Agreed, it was mean but I’m tired of him posting the same thing over and over without considering anyone else’s point.
I do think there are some other areas where CAS needs to be address. I also think as the OP of this thread stated that SPAA around 9.3-10.3 needs to be addressed. I don’t want CAS to be removed or even changed very much. People assume (not saying you) that if you don’t think SPAA is OP than you think CAS suffers or vice versa or that if you think certain vehicles (Cough Yak-9K Cough) are overperforming and harming the game that you hate the entire mechanic.
I will say that sometimes there is not anything you can do to avoid CAS other than just not be in that location at that time. CAS is an asymmetrical mechanic by design, which I think is why it is so upsetting to many players. This mostly comes down to a team thing, players don’t call out air targets often and the air target callout system is mostly useless when you are occupied trying to fight on the ground. War Thunder teammates are just generally awful all around 95% of the time, which leads to getting stomped, which leads to unrestricted CAS, which leads to forum posting. If there is any group of people I want to be my pallbearers, it’s my teammates in Ground RB, so they can let me down one last time.
Projecting
When enough planes are spawned, or in those matches with more than one rushing heli points should not be a problem. If there’s only one plane per game, maybe one guy would get it with SPAA, but the other SPAA will have nothing left. That’s discouraging on SPAA spawns.
Sorry but it’s real :D
This is a great example on how Vehicle Types work without specific vehicles. TDs have lost their best suited map features, the designed niche for them to use their special capabilities.
It can be a scenario like:
TD does not work well in death valley, but when they encountered bad players, they would one shot them with the tremendous firepower. One may say they are strong for they one shots everything, the other side would argue about the protection and overpressure, the mobility and lack of stab, etc. etc. People always remember a worst feeling; here being one shot in a best armoured tank by a camper TD.
I could have a.w. ptsd sry. Quite award now with the line between too weak and not useable
This is why I enjoy T72B soooo much lol. Those Leo2A4s never have the space to use mobility, the slopes to use depression, the range to use thermals nor the chance to survive 3BM42 afterpen. This is what’s called theoretical disadvantages.
PGZ09 does not care. So doesn’t M247. Many maps doesn’t even provide cover for pop ups e.g.poland east europe , in the case Kursk is seen as with cover. Also pop up with dumb weapon require 10x more skill for a sitting silent gepard to shoot from a not detected position.
Nonexistent/ Pushed to the spawn and get SPAA killed along with everyone else.
Nonexistent / will get a dead teammate and a turret turning towards you/ will get strelaed. idk maybe everyone’s good at spotting with strela.
anyways if 2v1 can’t overwhelm a single known SPAA, the CAS does need help.
Fly anything without a rwr to deal with a single PGZ09/M247/strela. Assume that a teammate plane is already sacrificed to let you know there is such SPAA somewhere on the other side of the map, but he only opened fire for 1 sec and moved: no you are not seeing that bit of flash. Assume it’s a normal team who won’t give accurate marks (they can’t even let a scout drone survive longer anyways).
Fly any Helirush without flying Ka. This is quite obvious lol with any autocannons at no ccip BRs and 2s38 at higher.
This reminds me of a strategy my friend used with su22m3. Climb to 6km and toss 500kgs to my accurate marks… and pray hard for spread, ccip accuracy, and that guy not to move. And my marks to be reliable & accurate too.
For this one we stand for the same thing. A further af and a further spawn is good for both sides.
And make ground battles last longer themselves
8.x is okay-ish but I don’t think migs and sabres should try to toss their loads without ccip and compete with gepards xD and those MCLOS msl planes who wouldn’t like to move when actually trying to guide
and another thing to add is a part of CAS’ strength is further increase the winner’s advantage with the kills. It is purely a game design issue to make an advantage a larger advantage. Not spawn AA and they are gotta be tooo useful xD
CAS is just as easy tough. Most of the time I die to SPAA below 8.3 is when I get bored and throw my life away.