And the Gepard is entirely unique as the only 8.3 SPAA, there definitely isn’t anything like it in any other nation
XM246 casually getting ignored? ) :
and SAMs and SPAA kill planes, so there’s that
If this is what you consider highly skilled gameplay than you have an incredibly low bar. CAS is legit just the most braindead aspect of most of the ground RB BRs. If you can’t abuse it you are just not very good.
you just point your nose towards a target and press spacebar, which usually results in a kill.
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Congrats. You have further demonstrated CAS hater iliteracy.
The things you mention here are valid points, but they are not necessary skills to do well in CAS at a basic level. These are the skills that separate the 2-3 kill players and the 5+ kill players. I (and hopefully many others) would say that getting 5+ kills in a CAS vehicle (with a few exceptions) is something that requires at least a reasonable amount of skill to accomplish. Getting 1-3 kills with 2000 lb. bombs before crashing is extremely easy.
In my opinion though, the basic level of skill to use most SPAA is higher than the basic level of skill to use most CAS, which is where I think most of the issues come from. You compare the most basic SPAA skills necessary to even get a kill to the skills a CAS player needs to do extremely well. If SPAA were as easy to use as CAS at a basic level, then the system would be more balanced, but because CAS is easier to get into and use than SPAA, it feels unfair. You also ignore that “basic bullet drop and lead” for SPAA are in 3 dimensions, not two like in most CAS situations.
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I have used enough CAS to know that I know it’s braindead at most BR. In any BR below ~7.7 you can just B-line it to the AO, press space for a couple of kills and get away relatively safe.
8.3 is the first BR where you actually have to think about your approach. Hell even then the Gepards are pretty easy to counter.
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If this is true, why do planes consistently outperform SPAA in the vast majority of matches. Every player being bad at using SPAA is not a viable explanation and is not a good faith arguement. “War Thunder’s easiest role” is consistently the worst performing role in the game, which seems paradoxical according to your explanation.
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you see the gepard suffers from being german. its more common and played by more petty players who as soon as they die in their ME262 50mm to use another annoying vehicle and spamcanon mbts to death as they have no skill to actually get normal kills. Its no different of a problem to zestorer at low tier in this sense, undertiered and used out of pettiness
and if they know what SPAA means they dump all ammo into the unfortunate trashy ww2 jets that arent gonna do much.
either way radar spaa shouldnt be appearing until RWR capable aircraft are too.
Honestly, I think it’s a perfectly viable explanation. SPAAis I herently boring so most experienced players don’t bother with it. Most SPAA you will see are either noobs spawning cause they died and don’t have enough SP for anything else, and players who are salty cuz they died to CAS (who 9 times outta 10 are bad at the game anyways).
I’ve seen skilled SPAA players from time to time, and most of the time they’re British cuz 1. Minor nation and 2. Britain has extremely good SPAA, and those players are very annoying to fight against, especially when my Temu P-47 teammate can’t take a hint that the Crusader mk.2 AA who’s been firing at me for the past minute is a completely distracted target, and thus free kill.
Even noob SPAA players are extremely hard to engage when theres more than one cuz SPAA is just that easy to play.
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In addition to what Pangolin said. I quite often find the BRs where planes feel like they completely outperform SPAA are also the same BRs where I dont actually have an SPAA for that BR and so totally outclassed. (And quite frankly a 5.3 SPAA like the Skink should be useless vs a 7.7 CAS, likewise using an 8.3 SPAAG like the Cheiftain Marksman at 9.3 is naturally going to be far weaker than if I had a 9.3 SPAA to use)
But at BRs where I do have SPAA that is competitive, like 10.3 with the Stormer HVM and Tracked Rapier. I have very little issue countering most CAS and those that I struggle against are more often than not down to what Id consider bugs rather than actual imbalances (such as the IRST on the Stormer not working through a wisp of cloud)
So id say the biggest issue at a lot of BRs isnt that CAS is too strong, but rather that many nations have giant voids in their SPAA line and that forces them to either uptier their other vehicles for the sake of better SPAA or use a far lower BR SPAA and try to make it work, which, if the BR system is working even half right, should be a major uphill battle.
The only BR range where CAS vs SPAA balance almost entirely fails is top tier, with only one nation with a competitive SPAA system and even that struggles these days vs some threats. But that is hopefully being fixed (at least the start) next major update. Though this is mitigated by the multi-role nature of mosts CAS aircraft
what? noob spaa are some of the easiest things to counter, especially below 8.0. As long as you don’t just B-line it to the AO.
as i’ve said before, i’d also be down for SPAA in ARB ^^
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I’m curious, how would that even work without making air RB worse?
As long as the match maker keeps the same number of SPAA and planes on each team, there won’t be any major issues that I can think of.
Honestly, I’m all for it cuz it will stop all the CAS hater “ARB shOUlD hAvE SPAA iF GRB HaS plANes” copy pasta.
And in ASB player controlled SPAAGs would be a decent nerf to what we have now 🤣
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For me, a fun concept has always been being able to do SOMETHING in ARB after dying. So maybe SPAA is a second life? Ideally ARB would be in a much better place.
Its not something I’ve thought out in egregious detail because;
A) It’d likely never come to the game (and if it did, it wouldn’t be permanent)
B) It’d be a niche feature at best
C) Probably would fit in a different environment, as ARB right now is just go on tiktok for 5 minutes (while multipathing, if applicable) and then throw out all your missiles or fly super high up, fire your Fox 3s and then notch your way back to low alt.
I think it’d be cool, alas it isn’t something needed nor necessary, so how it’d affect ARB is not something I’ve thought of. If I was advocating for it or really wanted it, then I’d have a 10 page document detailing it
Whilst I don’t think it would be appropriate for ARB due to it’s very nature, and nor am I sure how you could incorporate players directly. SEAD / heavier AI air defences in SB and a future RB EC gamemode would be very fun.
I suppose in a “infinite” respawn gamemodes, you could have player “remote control” some of those Normally AI controlled SAMs/SPAAGs (even if it was purely the turret and you had no control over the movement of the vehicle(s))
Bait used to be believeable lol. But hey, I like fishing, so I’ll take it.
I can turn your entire argument around, and it’ll make just as much sense, depending on your biases. You say, “SPAA only requires an extremely basic understanding of lead and bullet drop”, and I say CAS only requires an extremely basic understanding of lead and bomb drop.
Meanwhile, as an AA player, I first have to find a suitable spot where I can A) properly observe the sky without leaving any blind spots for CAS to sneak up on me, while also B) making sure I’m not in view of enemy tanks, which I’m often unable to defend against.
Then, assuming I don’t have radar, and let’s say I don’t, since you’re also basing CAS’ difficulty on not having a bomb computer (which would handle most of the targeting for you), I have to find and identify a target. This becomes increasingly difficult at higher BRs due to faster planes, and I also have to hope for good weather to get a clear view.
Next, I need to accurately judge the plane’s range and speed. Depending on the ammunition I’m using, and its velocity and drag, I have to calculate the correct lead and only then do I get to fire. But if I shoot from too far away, the plane has enough time to dodge. So I have to decide whether to risk letting it come closer, for an easier shot, while risking that the CAS will kill a teammate or me, or try for a more difficult shot at range to prevent it from dropping its bombs.
TL:DR
I’m not saying SPAA is super hard, or that CAS is super easy, they both require their own share of skill sets. I’m simply saying that your choice of words was extremely biased, and thus isn’t a valid argument.
Your entire argument is based on CAS vs AA, which just isn’t the case most of the time, a regular tank has absolutely no way of defending itself against a plane. Period.
And no, getting a radar or even missiles doesn’t eliminate all skill required for AAs. It just means adopting an entirely different set of skills. The lead indicator isn’t 100% accurate, the slightest manoeuvres will throw it off, you still have to manually adjust your aim to land hits. In fact, I often find it easier to avoid locking onto a target and just eyeball it.
Same story with missiles. IR missiles either have a pitiful range or are defeated extremely easily. And line of sight guided missiles actually are hard to aim, again, the slightest manoeuvres make tracking and leading very difficult.
Second TLDR
CAS should be, in my opinion, high risk high reward. You should be able to take out an entire team on your own, BUT, it should require a lot of skill, you could just as easily be shot down before you manage to do anything. There should be an imbalance, but not towards CAS, as it currently is.
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This is just flat out false. I will often times lure in CAS in my Kv-7 using my MG so that I can shoot him down with my cannon. I’ve shot multiple planes down with my ASU-57 as well. The problem isn’t that tanks are defenseless or that its even hard to defend them from CAS, the issue is that most people would rather just ignore CAS, then complain when they’re the one who gets bombed.
I disagree here too. SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint. CAS does not have to engage SPAA for it to be a threat, so CAS is a constant fight with SPAA, whether it’s trying to get kills whilst avoiding SPAA, or actually going face to face with SPAA to destroy it.
Ive always seen CAS as the opposite imo. Most CAS planes (aside from Russian ones) can’t get alot of kills due to limited armament, so I’ve always seen CAS as a quick and relatively low risk way to destroy overpowered tanks like Jagdpanzer 4s or players who are spawn camping.