my grb stats are even worse lol but yeah low tier cas is busted.
I wish people would stop saying that IR SAMs versus flareless planes is an issue.
Firstly, every IR SAM outside the Chaparrals have high performance IRCCM, meaning flares generally don’t do anything. You even have the Type 91 missile, which is entirely immune to flares if it’s using it’s contrast seeker.
Secondly, flares are in no way required to dodge these SAMs. The very best of them, the Mistral, only has 16 G of pull, on a fairly low energy missile. If you’ve ever used the base R530s, you know that that level of agililty is not hard to dodge, even accidentally, so long as you have some energy to play with. The rest of the IR SAMs at this tier have G overloads closer to 10, which are effortless to avoid.
Complaining that flareless planes have to fight IR SAMs at this tier is like complaining that flareless planes have to fight AIM-9Bs in Air RB. They are not remotely threatening if you’re at all paying attention.
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Id actually say its more like Flareless planes haivng to fight Aim-9Ls.
You can pre-flare though, which allows you to make an attack run with unguided weapons with a moderate amount of safety.
???
AIM-9Ls are practically impossible to kinematically defeat, if the launching plane gave it an even halfway decent shot. Every IR SAM outside the Type 81 and Strela can be easily defeated by a simple barrel roll.
This can be handy, however, since these IR SAMS have such limited energy right after launch, they’re almost incapable of pulling lead. This means there’s a practical deadzone of around 2km on approach where you’re effectively immune to IR SAMs. The only one to watch out for is the 9M39 on the Shilka M, since it’s thrust vector will instantly give it enough lead. However, it’s just a 10 G missile, so you can dodge it at a low energy state by just making small course corrections.
Of course, if the Shilka is relying on missiles within this range, he’s already made a mistake, because you’re in gun range, and those can’t be flared.
Preflaring is only really consistently useful on the way out from a strike. A fleeing plane has a much smaller deadzone (Effectively), and often isn’t looking behind them, so I like to save my IR SAMS for planes who have flown over and are on the way out. Preflaring and ducking low into the terrain completely counters this. Although, to be fair, so does just keeping low and ducking into the terrain on it’s own.
I would say they are far easier to dodge than aim9L. Sure their seeker has better IRCCMs, but they are kinematically far worse
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First contender is Igla : no proxy fuze, slow as hell, 10G, which is quite easy to dodge. Additionally it burns during the entire flight time duration, and basically becomes useless the moment it stops burning, making it easy to spot. Its only saving grace is being carried on vehicles that also have guns
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Our second contender and first victim to the infamous “Gaijin manpads article” is the Stinger : poor proxy fuze of 1 meter, same long burn making it quite visible, a bit faster but still not really good, and a quite pathetic 13G
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Last contender and second victim to “Gaijin manpads article” is Mistral : this thing just goes too fast for its own good, only delivering 16G at M2.5. One advantage it has is that it doesn’t burn for long, making it harder to spot. That also means it loses its energy quite quickly, and you might as well dodge it accidentally over long distances. Gaijin kind of forgot the thing had a pyramidal seeker cover and gave it incorrect deceleration to match the 6km max range publically given
Note that compared to all the above examples, IR AAM like AIM9L and 530D are also less sensitive to last second manoeuvers, since they have a larger trigger radius and more explosive mass
You are talking to people whom’s modus operandi is to fly straight at the enemy so they can bomb them in close range. Before switching to ammunition that is self guided at top tier.
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Same the other way around. If you struggle against low-mid tier SPAA in CAS you should try something else besides just mindlessly flying straight.
Is that why you have heavily negative air K/Ds in a lot of your low/mid tier SPAA?
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I agree.
So basically this entire thread is someone complaining that they can’t fly straight at the battle and get free money
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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So basically, some players just hope once there is a spaa, all CAS should be extinguished in the sky. and laugh at those planes which doesn’t have RWR, CCIP and countermeasures to get to know where the spaa is, and destroy it with precision.
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One flare and 9L is gone, but one would always have to pull a manpad - That provides more suppression than an ARH. Though I would interpret this in another way.
Manpads can be launched
- frontally, meaning less time to react and a smaller smoke trail to be seen
- one after another, which can bleed the speed of the opponent by forcing to maneuver constantly. This is more a thing on mig21f13/ mig23m/ etc. speed bleeders, not for hunters or harriers.
Here, NO. 9b does not have the speed nor the range nor the energy after maneuvers nor the seeker nor the 13g nor the amount. Give any plane a set of stingers and it can do insanely good in arb. One fun fact for stinger:
It beats everyone if you put it on a plane.
Air launched won’t make 9b as threatening.
Is…is this a joke post?
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That is incredibly misleading.
IF.
no plane carries stingers.
ground launched stinger will never have initial launch speed of 1200km/h.
At the very best they will be launched from helicopter, which goes what, 200-250km/h?
He was comparing MANPADs and AIM-9L against flareless planes. Against a flareless plane, any reasonably launched AIM-9L is a death sentence, while any MANPAD can be pretty simply kinematically avoided.
Also meaning the smoke trail is instantly visible, because it’s right in your field of view. Compare that to a rear or side aspect shot, requiring the target to have good spatial awareness and actively scanning to see it.
A common mistake, but you don’t have to full pull to dodge MANPADs (or other low G missiles). Most players always full pull every time they need to turn, which is very wasteful in high AoA, high speed bleed vehicles. You don’t need the full AoA potential of such vehicles to outpull these missiles, and as you say, doing so will make you a sitting duck after a few. Instead, rolling and half pulling the stick is usually enough, depending on the vehicle.
This is somewhat academic anyways, as the first thing you should do if taking long range MANPAD fire (After dodging) is to dive. MANPADs can only lock what can be seen, and most maps have terrain that can be used to high from SPAA on the way in. Ideally, you’ll remember the approximate location you saw the MANPADs being fired from, and you’ll approach it from an unusual angle and pop-up attack the SPAA first.
… in a straight line tail chase where the target plane makes no attempt to manuever, yes. Because it’s designed to be launched from stationary ground vehicles, it has an extremely powerful initial booster to get it up to speed quickly, meaning it can outrun other missiles in the short term.
But if the target makes any manuever, something the Statshark calculator doesn’t account for, the Stinger will miss every time, while the other three don’t.
I spaded my ZSU at 9.3, I hated that thing it sucks donkey balls, but people will spawn SPAA no matter what even if one is up and its extremely annoying when you are in a shitbox like that and everything else outclasses you because you aren’t getting kills.
2S6 is an absolute dream to play though, if other people spawn SPAA I don’t care because im getting the kills before they do. but its still incredibly annoying because when you run into good CAS players I don’t have the option to turn off my search radar and just use TIRST to launch on them and hope they don’t notice until it is too late, because I got 2-3 other braindead idiots that spawned SPAA after me pinging and locking the guy up at 15km so he dives or is ready to maneuver. Also playing this thing like a “we have BMP-T at home” is fun, these guns have no issue shreding anything from side aspect, and i’ve been sniping light tanks from like 1500m from scout pings across the map, compared to zsu that can’t even pen a bradley sometimes, and can’t pen MBTs anywhere. Also man it goes 60km in reverse almost absolute wunderwaffe for russia with their crap reverse gears. 2S6 also benefits from not getting powercrept every patch like the 12.0 SPAA like pantsir that deals with new BS every new plane that gets added and cramed at 12.0-13.0 in ground.
Some more perspective on the SPAA vs CAS situation playing a lot of these recently. There is virtually nothing I can do to someone that slings mavs from 5-6km and has high energy and brain, missiles are not touching them, guns obviously not, and if i don’t have a 3+ story building to play around im cooked. Some maps are just BAD for spaa. Ideally I need that 3 story object to play around, LOS on the heli spawn, and not be in a crater with bad LOS for low flying CAS, thats a tall order for most maps. And even if you get the perfect position like this, you gotta deal with spawn campers, and I mean in general ground vics prowling on your side of the map. Majority of my deaths in SPAA is to these guys.
When there is multiple SPAA up there is also more pressure on me to play in more aggressive spots, which in SPAA terms is better sightlines to planes, so I can get the kill and RP/SL, and that honestly gets me killed often too, usually to getting sniped across the map by a tank.
But ya, if a CAS player just never goes within 5km or so of the field, stays around mach 1, pops up to launch mavs he can do this forever basically without recourse from anything but CAP. Theres a lot you can do with leading missiles outside of just following the radar, but not to someone going that fast and know what they are doing, the missiles just don’t pull enough. For every 50 CAS players you might run into 1 guy that does this so its not so bad.
From like the 100 or so games i’ve played SPAA this week I’d say about 75% of CAS players are terrible and just eat missiles for breakfeast if launched TIRST and no one else is pinging them, and probably half would still just job to a hard radar lock without trying to do much. I still think CAS has the upper hand in every BR bracket if piloted by someone that knows what they are doing, especially with FNF stuff, theres always a risk to dumb drops at low alt because you can still get shredded if they get a lock early enough with guns or if the SPAA can lead without it to get shots in 1-2 seconds faster.
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Not when the plane is not focusing on the AA (Note ofc not for plane-AA duels) or on snow maps. For rear shots,… people do always check their 6 when finishing drop.
Play bricks or speed bleeders, and you will find yourself hit if you haven’t pulled enough. I would say thinking half pulling is enough is a more common mistake.
The best maps for this one are 38th, pradesh or arctic, the worst ones are 2271, normandy or kursk. A bit of upwards firing can solve the viewing issue, and repositioning can hide yourself again - though finding the accurate source of your stinger from the air is not usually that easy. The smoke will only appear a few hundred meters after launch.
Hey they fixed mavD =D Now a10al’s finally good
Edit:
No it’s not. mavD sucks
The Jaguar A and E are 10.3, and have an effective strike range of 11km with the AS-30L.
At 10.3, the best you can get is the Osa with a 10.3km theoretical max range.
There is no SPAA that can protect it’s team in the BR range. Even the Tor and HQ-17 are at the edge of their max range to destroy a Jaguar, and at these distances flying perpendicular to the missile’s path is enough to have it miss. The best they can realistically hope to achieve is intercept the munitions, all that for respectively .7 and 1.0 more BR.
Love this nonsense as if people are actually trying to use these missiles at these BRs as if they out range the SPAA, I have in my thousands of games at the 9.3 - 11.3 area , and god knows how many specifically with 10.3 /10,7 seen a Jag doing 11km out strikes, I’m sorry to tell you man.
Majority of people will enter the map within the 10km radius and fire off the misses, 11km is likely to miss its target or lose the kill.
Just because it in theory can fire at that range, does not mean its effective nor useful.
Much like OSA can fire out to 10.3km range but will it really hit much past 8km ? unlikely.
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