And wipe everything out of the sky with point-and-click? Bruh
It’s nice to say it doesn’t care about it shutting off, but when the experience in the game is the missile literally receiving brain damage and flying off in a straight line away from the aircraft who shut off his engine that doesn’t really matter.
What are you advocating for here? I’m genuinely confused…
Or just simply out pulled, they are useless against any enemy that knows what the are doing
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Fly a mig21f13 at it’s own br, or anything…
Balance of 800sp and 90sp, or 300sp and 0 extre sp. not balance of 100sp and 100sp
There is a reason for that, planes are significantly easier to use than Spaa when you learn what you are doing
(Basically don’t fly in a straight line)
While SPAA are way harder, they have to actually shoot you down, as well as the fact that its a GROUND battle, not an AIR battle, makes sense that it should be harder to get in planes
3 Likes
Eh… Id argue that sub 9.7 ish most CAS has to be well within range of SPAA to do much unless they are dropping bombs relatively blind, whilst the CAS does have some room for how they do things, they ultimately will probably be forced into both range and line of sight of an SPAA.
Its not until guided weapons become the norm about 10.3+ that SPAA can usually engage truly on their own terms.
Also not all CAS should be considered equal and not all weapons should be considered equal (especialyl at all BRs)
They could do a lot of rebalancing that would result in both buffs and nerfs for CAS by applying greater finess to the SP system.
Not only could aircraft be individually tweaked if they were strong or weak, but so could their weapon systems. (we’ve seen them do this recently with KH-38MTs, but they could do with doing it far more at all BRs where appropriate) Also having quantity of weapons also have an impact on overall SP cost where appropriate. Especially at higher BRs where unguided bombs and guided bombs cost the same amount, even though they are not equal.
For example, its always annoyed me that, in the Tornado Gr1, running 8-12 unguided 1000lb would result most likely in less kills per sorties and could be considered less safe (depending on what im facing) than running 4x 1000lb GBUs, but both loadouts would cost exactly the same SP cost. There is little incentive to run the unguided (and more dangerous) loadout at a BR dominated by strong SPAA and even stronger CAS.
Another example could be running a few 1000lb bombs on the Sea Harrier FRS1e whilst also providing CAP instead of dropping 1000lb GBUs from a safe height in the Jaguar GR1A. For some reason both aircraft and loadouts would cost the same
Id also say that the base cost of aircraft should be a lot lower, if CAP was more afordable, you may see more people bringing CAP, its kinda stupid imo, that SPAA costs 70-100? A heli with A2A weapons costs about 250? and a fighter with basic A2A is about 500-550 SP and advanced weapons like ARH bump that up to about 650-700? (even IR missiles add a cost iirc, which is really really stupid)
Whilst things vary from BR to BR, at the ranges being discussed in this thread around 9.3-10.3. A fighter gun-strafing might get kills but probably wont (especially without ground belts which could cost an appropriate amount), so its hard to justify its current SP cost.
TLDR. SP costs are equal accross all aircraft and all weapon types, even though they really shouldnt be.
Its “Ground” battle because the objectives are on the ground and need ground vehicles to win. Its is exceedingly rare for CAS to solo win a match (i’ve done it once in a GSB match) and more often than not, the team with heavy CAS usually looses the objectives and thus looses the match.
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Were talking about 1.5km effective range for platforms like Gepard, around 800m effective range for Vulcan and even less for WW2 vehicles.
Sure they can fire outside of those ranges and try to hit planes, but with WW2 vehicles that entirely hinges on the plane being asleep as to not notice tracers trying to lead him, as they have no fire control systems beside good old eyeball mk.1; with things like Gepard theres absolute range of like 3km where the HE shells self-destruct.
SPAA has to closely follow the tanks to battle to get as much effective range between their tanks and enemy planes as possible, which isnt always possible due to map design. Meaning sometimes SPAA doesnt even get its full effective range.
So if you think about it, while yes, most sub 9.7 CAS has to enter the SPAA range, if the CAS plane keeps its speed, SPAA has only short window to intercept it before it drops its payload.
And were not talking about things like supressing the SPAA first with unguided rockets, with enough speed and alt i can confidently launch HVARS or those Il-2 rockets towards SPAA at distances far exceeding the effective range of WW2 SPAA: or things like Bullups on A-4B, which can comfortably sit outside of SPAA effective range and sling Bullups at targets. Or the swiss Hunter which for some reason sits at 9.7 with two Mavs, which outrange any 9.7 and below SPAA beside the french Roland.
Team with bad* CAS.
Players that take fighter with single bomb, drop it and then spend rest of the game straffing ground targets is usually what loses the match.
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Are we actually talking about 9.3-10.3 AAA (though I’d like to extend it to 8.0-11.0) ?
SPAAs are significantly easier to use than CAS when you learn to point and click.
(Basically don’t start shooting tracers at 4km)
While planes are way harder, they have to actually penetrate across AAA firepower, missile or AHEAD or VT with cold war handling + early supersonic maneuverability issues + no CCIP if we include 8.x + no wall hacks
avg TO guy
Imagine this thing happening at anywhere around 8.0-11.0 xD. How can SPAAs let him keep strafing
2 Likes
Not enough players in game for one to hop into SPAA without giving up ground unit and most importantly positioning.
Theres single dedicated AA with AHEADs in game, and two dedicated AAs with VT below 10.0 (and one doesnt even get a radar) IIRC, stop acting like its common thing.
5 Likes
Imagine unmanned planes controlled by a tank in ground map… but they are not here lol
Imagine…
F8F is the only thing with the capability at 4.7 stop acting like it’s common thing
Pantsir is the only AAA working at top tier stop acting like it’s common thing
E2K and RFL are the only CAS that out-pull Pantsir well stop acting like it’s common thing
Strela and 81c are the only UV seeker AAA stop acting like it’s common thing
etc. etc.
They are there to be discussed only after when you have confidence to survive brained gepards and shilkas without CCIP. Don’t tell me you think they are not enough.
Note in advance, with enough info and cover to sneak across the map you can kill leo2s with BT5. Think about equal & practical conditions.
what in the name of god are you even on about?
capability to what?
Topic is called “SPAA at 9.3 to 10.3”, why you bring BR 12.0 Pantsir into the discussion? Top tier is wholly different enviroment with its own nuances.
See above.
A) unless they changed it, type 91 also has contrast seeker.
B) what even is the argument here? yes they indeed have contrast seeker giving them slightly better capability to engage high alt targets and the cost of being easily countered by hitting the deck.
I take that english isnt your first language.
what? Gepards and shilkas not being enough?
indeed you can. just because BT5 can kill top tier tank under extremely specific conditions does not mean BT5 is top tier worthy.
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These CASes are, sadly, in this condition.
(wow a cool forum feature
Take your own words as an example
Is a CAS able to
A) Find them without wall hacks when they are behind a rock or a small house? Sacrifice a teammate to let him fire, and have the 2v1 fight to be 1v1?
B) Dodge the missile. Missiles can be fired upwards to reduce the effect of ground cover, so the only way is to get out of the range whenever contrast is available. Will one be able to flare an IR strela? Wouldn’t expect that.
;
And this is all before he can start his attack.
And up to now nobody can recall the existence of our CAP force
;
Here’s a bit more explanation for you:
A plane is controlled by a player. One more plane in the air one less player on the ground front, just as SPAAs.
For these sentences:
Things are widely played, no matter OP AAA/planes/anything else. the discussion is on the op part.
MB
Gepards and Shilkas are too good if played correctly for the turret traverse and gun handling, and for the lack of CCIP on many planes, since they would have to get closer for bomb drops. CCIP attackers are still vulnerable to these AAAs when they are not having info advantage/ sacrificing much efficiency themselves by blind tossing bombs. Plus there have been A2G weapon nerfs on all of bombs, rockets, MCLOS and cannons.
Above these already strong AAAs are PGZ09 and M247… do I have to continue?
What’s that mean, I’m not really chronically online
And CAS isnt? If you think SPAA is overpowered, stay out of planes 🤷
Don’t know what else to tell ya, everything has been placed at certain brs for good reasons, they don’t usually just chuck everything in the matchmaker and pray
Are you really equating BT5 killing top tier tank under very specific conditions to for example, 8.7 CAS plane facing 8.7 SPAA?
Again what in gods earth is this argument?
If vehicle hides of course its harder to detect, thats no different for ground units or air.
If tank hides behind house, turn offs his engine and ambushes someone this way, do you think its like unfair or what?
You think it would be fair to see a target thats purposely hiding from you or what???
Lot of 10.3 CAS planes (since you mention Strela which is 10.3 AA) have standoff ordnance that can be launched outside of Strelas lock-on range AND usually some way to spot ground targets. A-7, A-10s with Mavericks immidiately come to mind, with either B having optical zoom or G having IR (albeit bad one). Hell, the A-7E gets targeting pod.
Strela isnt getting anywhere close to launching at those planes and if it does the CAS plane has all the time in the world to defend by either dodging the missile, hitting the deck, flaring it or all of the above for good measure.
A good CAS player can take out more tanks more easily, not mentioning providing air recon.
I still have zero clue what do you mean by saying that “F8F is the only thing with capability”. Capability for what? Grilling a mean steak?
And would still get walked over in A-4B with Bullups.
The horror of not being able to bomb the enemy without any resistance.
Maybe in learning at least basic english.
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I do have to show that scenario again, whichever flareless plane, and ImpChapp.
You never gonna see the same camper around every corner without the ability to turn around in a ground vehicle. A2G is different. I don’t see the reason behind a guaranteed kill by every guaranteed visual contact.
You think it would be unfair to let go a target that have to be in your range or what?
There is another issue here. There are 116 tech tree vehicles, and more prem and event ones, sitting between 9.3-10.3. I’m not gonna count again for how many of them are having a2g capabilities, but many of them cannot deal with either strela or OSA properly (or neither)
There is a HUGE gap between CASes e.g. su22 vs a6e / mig23bn vs f58 Though they are all at the same BR. Yes a Q5L can climb super fast, spot with IR pod and blow 2 strelas up, but what about those with only monocoloured TV mavericks? What about those that are only 0.3 br below with only dumb weapons? And those full uptiered ones?
This is a compression issue regarding to 10.3 only. At the lower BRs they have stingers which… would take another eternity to explain why stingers can spoil attacks and bleed planes’ energy to death.
Bad ground players let a single full load brick su22 to hang in the sky for 10min and kill 13. 0 tracers were shot at me.
I’ve been recently on this one lol. Drive while shooting. He would be dead if he level fight for guidance, and wouldn’t be able to guide when he’s dodging. If he made it, check the skills.
do you mean instant kill?
The only CAS players getting simply point and clicked out of the sky are the ones that have zero clue what they are doing and think they are flying an ac130 in CoD.
Pantsir cant even hit a plane farther than 8km if the pilot has half a brain and any expierence in dodging missiles and isnt letting themselves get in a vulnerable low energy state. Pantsir is the first thing I rushed in the russian tech tree bc I thought it was swatting people down at 15km, I just ended up getting clowned on by f16 pilots sitting up at altitude 10km away laughing at me, and if I was smart enough to move because at that range mavs dont track just point target they would come in low and wipe me out.
Honestly though 75% of my deaths in the pantsir were to ground vics either spawn camping or finding me as soon as i fired a missile and got scouted because all a light tank needs to do is go in binos and click where the smoke trail originated from.
Bad SPAA players have an advantage on bad CAS players, good CAS players have every advantage over good spaa players. They dictate when to engage, when it is in their favor, and they know the limitations. When you just spawn CAS and fly in a straight line over the field, when you immedietely pull up or do tight circles and bleed all your energy instead of extending to gain it, you are gonna die if the other team isnt jobbing.
Im terrible at CAS maybe mid at best, I never once died and thought it was BS at any BR, there was always something I could of done to avoid dying, i got too greedy, too lazy, bad sitautional awareness, bad aim, staying on target too long, the list is endless. If you cant even be concious of the mistakes you are making you end up making dumb threads like these and blaming anything but yourself.
I gave up on trying to get better at SPAA for the most part because its miserable being in a fishbowl where you cant even hide on most maps and end up dying to ground vics before you even engage planes, its not fun, the only ones worth playing are things like the gepard where you can actually defend yourself from ground vics or rat spaa that is small enough to hide. I played like 5 games in the OSA and it was like playing a horror game where im the victim hiding from monsters on the ground looking for a free meal, I dont even think I died to CAS once, not touching these land ship SPAA ever again.
If only planes had some kind of bird view of the battlefield that instantly neutralizes most ground obstacles that hinders LoS of ground vehicles.
Oh wait, they do.
Are these sentences in english?
Why are you comparing capability of 9.3 CAS plane to 10.3 AA? This leads nowhere. Compare 10.3 AA to 10.3 CAS.
Base line is you are being dishonest, at worst theres ill intent behind it.
Im not comparing 9.3 AA to 10.3 CAS either.
Strela cant deal with stand-off weaponry because it gets outranged.
OSA cannot deal with low flying planes flying at close range due to launcher related dead-zones and slow turret rotation, not to mention it requires line of sight on target in order to hit it.
Both of them have weaknesses and strong points, just like any other vehicle.
Do you struggle against AIM-9Bs? Do you think AIM-9B pulls too hard to be dodged? If not, then how are you struggling against stinger?
Seeing as i was up until recently playing mostly US 8.7, I dare to say i know what i am talking about if i say that my money is still on A-4B.
Of who by whom?
Instant kill of tank by CAS plane? Yeah.