Would love the Lvrbv over imp
Yeah, chapparal is only okay imo. The M247 is just too good even in a full uptier +.3. I think Gaijin thought it would somehow be on par with the ozelot and completely forgot how OP it is to be the size of a sedan.
SPAA in general seems to fall into two categories:
- Absolutely shuts down the airspace until a massive BR or skill disparity allows a plane/heli to knock it out.
- Simple bullet/missile spammer that anyone could figure out how to use, but generally just gets the user killed by a stiff breeze and is only a threat to aircraft that completely ignore that it exists.
All aspect does not care about shutting off engine. Stop complaining about point and click
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The SPAA lifestyle ain’t for everyone. I’m happy first spawning AA and just waiting. Patient. Unbothered. Moisturized. Happy. In my lane. Focused. Flourishing.
5 Likes
It does care but until the engine is cooled off its way to late
And wipe everything out of the sky with point-and-click? Bruh
It’s nice to say it doesn’t care about it shutting off, but when the experience in the game is the missile literally receiving brain damage and flying off in a straight line away from the aircraft who shut off his engine that doesn’t really matter.
What are you advocating for here? I’m genuinely confused…
Or just simply out pulled, they are useless against any enemy that knows what the are doing
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Fly a mig21f13 at it’s own br, or anything…
Balance of 800sp and 90sp, or 300sp and 0 extre sp. not balance of 100sp and 100sp
There is a reason for that, planes are significantly easier to use than Spaa when you learn what you are doing
(Basically don’t fly in a straight line)
While SPAA are way harder, they have to actually shoot you down, as well as the fact that its a GROUND battle, not an AIR battle, makes sense that it should be harder to get in planes
3 Likes
Eh… Id argue that sub 9.7 ish most CAS has to be well within range of SPAA to do much unless they are dropping bombs relatively blind, whilst the CAS does have some room for how they do things, they ultimately will probably be forced into both range and line of sight of an SPAA.
Its not until guided weapons become the norm about 10.3+ that SPAA can usually engage truly on their own terms.
Also not all CAS should be considered equal and not all weapons should be considered equal (especialyl at all BRs)
They could do a lot of rebalancing that would result in both buffs and nerfs for CAS by applying greater finess to the SP system.
Not only could aircraft be individually tweaked if they were strong or weak, but so could their weapon systems. (we’ve seen them do this recently with KH-38MTs, but they could do with doing it far more at all BRs where appropriate) Also having quantity of weapons also have an impact on overall SP cost where appropriate. Especially at higher BRs where unguided bombs and guided bombs cost the same amount, even though they are not equal.
For example, its always annoyed me that, in the Tornado Gr1, running 8-12 unguided 1000lb would result most likely in less kills per sorties and could be considered less safe (depending on what im facing) than running 4x 1000lb GBUs, but both loadouts would cost exactly the same SP cost. There is little incentive to run the unguided (and more dangerous) loadout at a BR dominated by strong SPAA and even stronger CAS.
Another example could be running a few 1000lb bombs on the Sea Harrier FRS1e whilst also providing CAP instead of dropping 1000lb GBUs from a safe height in the Jaguar GR1A. For some reason both aircraft and loadouts would cost the same
Id also say that the base cost of aircraft should be a lot lower, if CAP was more afordable, you may see more people bringing CAP, its kinda stupid imo, that SPAA costs 70-100? A heli with A2A weapons costs about 250? and a fighter with basic A2A is about 500-550 SP and advanced weapons like ARH bump that up to about 650-700? (even IR missiles add a cost iirc, which is really really stupid)
Whilst things vary from BR to BR, at the ranges being discussed in this thread around 9.3-10.3. A fighter gun-strafing might get kills but probably wont (especially without ground belts which could cost an appropriate amount), so its hard to justify its current SP cost.
TLDR. SP costs are equal accross all aircraft and all weapon types, even though they really shouldnt be.
Its “Ground” battle because the objectives are on the ground and need ground vehicles to win. Its is exceedingly rare for CAS to solo win a match (i’ve done it once in a GSB match) and more often than not, the team with heavy CAS usually looses the objectives and thus looses the match.
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Were talking about 1.5km effective range for platforms like Gepard, around 800m effective range for Vulcan and even less for WW2 vehicles.
Sure they can fire outside of those ranges and try to hit planes, but with WW2 vehicles that entirely hinges on the plane being asleep as to not notice tracers trying to lead him, as they have no fire control systems beside good old eyeball mk.1; with things like Gepard theres absolute range of like 3km where the HE shells self-destruct.
SPAA has to closely follow the tanks to battle to get as much effective range between their tanks and enemy planes as possible, which isnt always possible due to map design. Meaning sometimes SPAA doesnt even get its full effective range.
So if you think about it, while yes, most sub 9.7 CAS has to enter the SPAA range, if the CAS plane keeps its speed, SPAA has only short window to intercept it before it drops its payload.
And were not talking about things like supressing the SPAA first with unguided rockets, with enough speed and alt i can confidently launch HVARS or those Il-2 rockets towards SPAA at distances far exceeding the effective range of WW2 SPAA: or things like Bullups on A-4B, which can comfortably sit outside of SPAA effective range and sling Bullups at targets. Or the swiss Hunter which for some reason sits at 9.7 with two Mavs, which outrange any 9.7 and below SPAA beside the french Roland.
Team with bad* CAS.
Players that take fighter with single bomb, drop it and then spend rest of the game straffing ground targets is usually what loses the match.
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Are we actually talking about 9.3-10.3 AAA (though I’d like to extend it to 8.0-11.0) ?
SPAAs are significantly easier to use than CAS when you learn to point and click.
(Basically don’t start shooting tracers at 4km)
While planes are way harder, they have to actually penetrate across AAA firepower, missile or AHEAD or VT with cold war handling + early supersonic maneuverability issues + no CCIP if we include 8.x + no wall hacks
avg TO guy
Imagine this thing happening at anywhere around 8.0-11.0 xD. How can SPAAs let him keep strafing
2 Likes
Not enough players in game for one to hop into SPAA without giving up ground unit and most importantly positioning.
Theres single dedicated AA with AHEADs in game, and two dedicated AAs with VT below 10.0 (and one doesnt even get a radar) IIRC, stop acting like its common thing.
5 Likes
Imagine unmanned planes controlled by a tank in ground map… but they are not here lol
Imagine…
F8F is the only thing with the capability at 4.7 stop acting like it’s common thing
Pantsir is the only AAA working at top tier stop acting like it’s common thing
E2K and RFL are the only CAS that out-pull Pantsir well stop acting like it’s common thing
Strela and 81c are the only UV seeker AAA stop acting like it’s common thing
etc. etc.
They are there to be discussed only after when you have confidence to survive brained gepards and shilkas without CCIP. Don’t tell me you think they are not enough.
Note in advance, with enough info and cover to sneak across the map you can kill leo2s with BT5. Think about equal & practical conditions.
what in the name of god are you even on about?
capability to what?
Topic is called “SPAA at 9.3 to 10.3”, why you bring BR 12.0 Pantsir into the discussion? Top tier is wholly different enviroment with its own nuances.
See above.
A) unless they changed it, type 91 also has contrast seeker.
B) what even is the argument here? yes they indeed have contrast seeker giving them slightly better capability to engage high alt targets and the cost of being easily countered by hitting the deck.
I take that english isnt your first language.
what? Gepards and shilkas not being enough?
indeed you can. just because BT5 can kill top tier tank under extremely specific conditions does not mean BT5 is top tier worthy.
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These CASes are, sadly, in this condition.
(wow a cool forum feature
Take your own words as an example
Is a CAS able to
A) Find them without wall hacks when they are behind a rock or a small house? Sacrifice a teammate to let him fire, and have the 2v1 fight to be 1v1?
B) Dodge the missile. Missiles can be fired upwards to reduce the effect of ground cover, so the only way is to get out of the range whenever contrast is available. Will one be able to flare an IR strela? Wouldn’t expect that.
;
And this is all before he can start his attack.
And up to now nobody can recall the existence of our CAP force
;
Here’s a bit more explanation for you:
A plane is controlled by a player. One more plane in the air one less player on the ground front, just as SPAAs.
For these sentences:
Things are widely played, no matter OP AAA/planes/anything else. the discussion is on the op part.
MB
Gepards and Shilkas are too good if played correctly for the turret traverse and gun handling, and for the lack of CCIP on many planes, since they would have to get closer for bomb drops. CCIP attackers are still vulnerable to these AAAs when they are not having info advantage/ sacrificing much efficiency themselves by blind tossing bombs. Plus there have been A2G weapon nerfs on all of bombs, rockets, MCLOS and cannons.
Above these already strong AAAs are PGZ09 and M247… do I have to continue?
What’s that mean, I’m not really chronically online
And CAS isnt? If you think SPAA is overpowered, stay out of planes 🤷
Don’t know what else to tell ya, everything has been placed at certain brs for good reasons, they don’t usually just chuck everything in the matchmaker and pray