SPAA at 9.3-10.3 is hilariously OP and i see no one talking about it

[Creastroy]

@SOD1102

You don’t just get RP and SL for sitting there, you have to be active.

Planes need to be spawned. Especially in 9-10.0 BRs. When to spawn is never an issue, profit is calculated by total action and total time regardless of first kill then sit or first sit then kill

@SOD1102

I find it hard to believe you can’t remember the last time you were killed by CAS, because I have never seen a match where no player died to CAS.

Again, CAS is a REAL feature, just as one should not find 0 LT/TD/SPAA/HELI kills in a match. Moaning just because someone used up 600+sp to get a kill? Why not talk to the nuke guys “Tank Too Strong” for he spawns his tank for 100sp!

@SOD1102

but if you spawn CAS during the match, there are always targets to kill, disable, mark for your team, etc.

Suppressed to useless is not nothing to do. Being killed when breaking through is also useless.

@SOD1102

If you think it takes too long to rearm at the airfield

Either team collapses to spawn in a rather short time. It’s a game design issue that subsequently affected planes. I’m good with reloads, but teams (happens on both sides) die before second takeoffs xD.

@SOD1102

“spawn radar”

Helipad and air air spawn detection. Imagine it being closer to the safety range from AAA

@SOD1102

you need to have the airfield further away from the battlefield

ofc needed

@SOD1102

takes too long to rearm

Games’ short, rearms’ good. btw at supersonic BRs a ~5-10km additional range won’t change that much, especially when there’s already no game length to reload: Better be safer when both teams are performing well for us to play for longer :D

@SOD1102

Clouds and fog work both ways, they are as equally frustrating for SPAA and players trying to spot you as they are for you.

Not about crashing, but about target seeking. SPAA can always have CAS on radar, aka transparent in one way, but CAS would have to decent to below 1000m to actually see anything without considering fog, and approach to within 2km only to see through fog. In case you don’t know, buildings provide cover better against low angle attacks; GBUs won’t go far from low alts; ground hears more air than air to ground; planes are rendered as obvious light-coloured spot in the fog; dumb weapon rushing relies heavily on what a player can see when he pops up, while lack of illumination shades ground vehicles in the dirt.

this can only be skill issue when you are to call “leo2a4 can’t deal with t80bvm is skill issue. Can’t you shoot weak spots with double plane stab?”

[SPAA-Chan]

@Pangolin_Fan

This is just flat out false. I will often times lure in CAS in my Kv-7 using my MG so that I can shoot him down with my cannon. I’ve shot multiple planes down with my ASU-57 as well. The problem isn’t that tanks are defenseless or that its even hard to defend them from CAS, the issue is that most people would rather just ignore CAS, then complain when they’re the one who gets bombed.

Not only already disproven by someone else, but even if it were true, you’d be the exception, a tank usually has no way of knowing if they’re being attacked by a plane, until it is too late, and even if they do, not all tanks are equipped with a heavy machine gun which could potentially be used to shoot down planes.

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.

Not true. No SPAA has the capability to accurately and reliably shoot at the airspawn. And at top tier, where you’ll find the longest range SPAAs, you even have maps where CAS can attack tanks the second they spawn in, while SPAAs have to wait for them to get within ~10km. And said AAs with that long of a range, are fairly trivial to dodge if shot at their max range. You could dive into the terrain, go cold, or do the slighest manoeuvre to defeat line of sight guided SAMs. (And IR missiles won’t lock until, if you’re lucky, 6km, but usually closer than that… And if you’re getting that close to the battlefield at top tier, it’s kinda your own fault for dying anyways.)

@Pangolin_Fan

CAS does not have to engage SPAA for it to be a threat, so CAS is a constant fight with SPAA, whether it’s trying to get kills whilst avoiding SPAA, or actually going face to face with SPAA to destroy it.

Exactly! At certain BRs, a skilled CAS pilot can ignore enemy SPAAs for the entire game, while getting kills left and right! Without there being much counterplay for the AA, who has to rely on a lucky hit, to stop the plane from murdering their team. (Or they have to hope the CAS pilot goes head on with them, and even then, depending on what armament the plane is carrying, they have a much easier time opening fire from long range, where a lot of SPAAs won’t accuratly hit, then pull away having killed the AA and survived themselves.)

@Pangolin_Fan

Ive always seen CAS as the opposite imo. Most CAS planes (aside from Russian ones) can’t get alot of kills due to limited armament, so I’ve always seen CAS as a quick and relatively low risk way to destroy overpowered tanks like Jagdpanzer 4s or players who are spawn camping.

…Except you know that’s not true. If it was such an easy, low risk way to deal with high value threats, then why aren’t spawn costs higher, and why are you allowed to fly back to the airfield and rearm? Seems very unbalanced to me, if that was the actual intent behind CAS. Not to mention this just not being the case at top tier. Sounds like you prefer the arcade system of spawning cas.

Closing notes… And to preface, generally I don’t like looking at K/Ds, but if someone is talking this much smack, they need to be investigated… If SPAA is sooooo easy, and soooo unbalanced, how come the only AA you have a positive air K/D on is at Rank 2? Meanwhile your K/D in some common CAS planes looks a lot better, now these kills may have been gotten in air battles… But to me it looks like CAS is performing a lot better… Whoda thunk! Oh wait… I have almost three times the amount of time played as AA, I’d like to think I know a bit about how AA works, the problem lies in how strong CAS is, how easy it is to spawn and how overtiered a lot of SPAAs are.

[SOD1102]

@Creastroy

Planes need to be spawned. Especially in 9-10.0 BRs. When to spawn is never an issue, profit is calculated by total action and total time regardless of first kill then sit or first sit then kill

Longer time in game with less score = less rewards as there is a lower activity %. The formulas and calculations for this are not officially explained afaik so it could work differently, but this is my understanding. The same amount of action over a longer time scales rewards down afaik. If you have a source that disproves that then I’ll gladly accept it.

@Creastroy

Again, CAS is a REAL feature, just as one should not find 0 LT/TD/SPAA/HELI kills in a match. Moaning just because someone used up 600+sp to get a kill? Why not talk to the nuke guys “Tank Too Strong” for he spawns his tank for 100sp!

I didn’t complain or “moan” about CAS being a feature or getting kills. I enjoy playing CAS. I merely stated that you were not being truthful in saying you “can’t remember the last time you were killed by CAS”. It would be like me saying “I can’t remember the last time I was killed by a TD”. You say “TD’s are very common in game and are present in every match, so that seems hard to believe” and I respond with “You are complaining about TD’s being overpowered even though they are a game feature!” See how it makes no sense? You twisted my words to make me an anti-CAS fanatic when I’m only trying to show you are intentionally trying to undersell CAS’s capabilities in game.

@Creastroy

Suppressed to useless is not nothing to do. Being killed when breaking through is also useless.

Think of this same situation for a light tank. “I cannot drive straight down the middle of the map because there are tank destroyers” “My tank was destroyed when trying to push into the enemy head on” By your logic, light tanks would be useless. Have you tried to approach from a different angle? Request Team Support? Call out SPAA targets for your team? Coordinate with other CAS to overwhelm enemy SPAA? If you fly straight into the battlefield and die to SPAA, its not that SPAA is OP, its that you are doing the equivalent of driving straight into the enemy as a light tank.
My point was that in a situation where your CAS spawn is unable to make any game impact, you would be in the same situation if you were to spawn in a tank 99%. Give me a situation where as a plane you were unable to do ANYTHING (unable to attack any targets or make any game impact) and would have been able to do something as a tank. I’m sure you can give me an example of matches where you didn’t do anything because you played a certain way, but in order to improve you need to be able to say “I should have done this to avoid this situation” or “I could have done this differently and survived”. If you are able to recognize how you can play a tank differently to address different threats on the battlefield then you should be able to do the same for CAS. This isn’t to say there aren’t BS SPAA that outclass CAS at certain BRs, but even when I die to them I ask “what could I have done differently to avoid that” and I have never had a situation where I couldn’t think of some way to avoid dying or approach differently. I cannot say the same for dying to CAS in a tank. There are many times where I and others cannot find a way to avoid dying in that situation, especially with the current sound issues regarding planes in Ground RB.

@Creastroy

Helipad and air air spawn detection. Imagine it being closer to the safety range from AAA

I see, I still think my point stands. If you want larger spawn radar, you need further spawns. Planes shouldn’t have automatic detection of planes on their half of the map.

@Creastroy

Games’ short, rearms’ good. btw at supersonic BRs a ~5-10km additional range won’t change that much, especially when there’s already no game length to reload: Better be safer when both teams are performing well for us to play for longer :D

I understand your point, but with a max level crew it takes 10 seconds to repair and reload. I don’t understand how you could reasonably want to decrease this number any further. You can’t eliminate landing in order to rearm because it is the only chance players have to kill high-altitude aircraft like the PE-8, who would never enter engagement range if they didn’t have to take-off after rearming.

@Creastroy

Not about crashing, but about target seeking. SPAA can always have CAS on radar, aka transparent in one way, but CAS would have to decent to below 1000m to actually see anything without considering fog, and approach to within 2km only to see through fog. In case you don’t know, buildings provide cover better against low angle attacks; GBUs won’t go far from low alts; ground hears more air than air to ground; planes are rendered as obvious light-coloured spot in the fog; dumb weapon rushing relies heavily on what a player can see when he pops up, while lack of illumination shades ground vehicles in the dirt.

this can only be skill issue when you are to call “leo2a4 can’t deal with t80bvm is skill issue. Can’t you shoot weak spots with double plane stab?”

Fair enough, my perspective is from 9.0 below as that is primarily where I like to play. I don’t know enough about high tier CAS to really say anything about this so I’m not going to comment.

Edit: Also sorry if my replies came across as rude, I have a bad habit of typing forum responses after I die in game.

[SOD1102]

It’s a lost cause trying to discuss this with him. He is convinced that the vehicles he plays (CAS) are miles more difficult than the vehicles he dies to (SPAA) so he makes up nonsensical statements about the capability of SPAA to cope.

“SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.”

This statement is so absurd and incorrect that I am forced to believe he is just a troll at this point.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@SPAA-Chan

Not true. No SPAA has the capability to accurately and reliably shoot at the airspawn.

Not even a single player in this discussion has claim that.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@SOD1102

This statement is so absurd and incorrect that I am forced to believe he is just a troll at this point.

You realize tank spawn are less than 2 miles apart on nearly ever map in WarThunder right? If you are (somehow) so bad at playing SPAA that you can’t shoot down a plane flying in a straight line less than 2 miles away, then you shouldn’t even be engaging in this discussion.

[SPAA-Chan]

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.

You claimed that.

[SPAA-Chan]

You’re not doing too hot either, shooting down CAS… I don’t think you know enough about SPAA to be engaging in this discussion.

[SOD1102]

1. Normal CAS players don’t fly in a straight line. Since you think SPAA is so OP you should try not flying in a straight line.

2. 2 miles or 3km does not account for altitude. When you hit the 5th grade and learn about the Pythagorean theorem you would know how to calculate the actual distance. Some SPAA might be able to do this if the CAS player is braindead and flies directly into the battlefield and in the case of missile AA, does not deploy any countermeasures or evasive maneuvers. Try to get a kill over 2.5 km with any unguided SPAA, bonus points if it’s over 25mm caliber. Judging by what SPAA-Chan said about your SPAA stats I’m not confident you will deliver. Planes also have access to the entire massive map, SPAA should be able to attack planes flying in their direct vicinity.

As a rule of thumb don’t call other player bad when you complain about how hard CAS is, even CAS mains will laugh at you.

@Pangolin_Fan

Not even a single player in this discussion has claim that.

You literally said “SPAA can attack CAS from extreme distances, even from spawnpoint to spawnpoint.”

[SOD1102]

This point you keep making about what I assume are SPAA being able to shoot from the distance of one tank spawn to another implies that you consistently fly over the friendly tank spawn while the enemy. This could be another possible explanation for your skill issue with CAS. You don’t have to fly directly towards the enemy spawn where enemy SPAA is waiting. I’m sure @SPAA-Chan will also tell you that SPAA are expecting you to fly in from that exact direction. This in combination with your straight line flying comments are pointing to a clear picture…

Skill. Issue.

[JuicyKuuuuki]

@SOD1102

Skill. Issue.

oof, whenever I say this, I hit nerves and I become disliked and get insulted by certain individuals. Not gonna mention names or insult back cuz im not going to drop down to their level.

Everything about this game is skilled/knowledge based. I get hated just for saying it too, but its the hard truth. The truth hurts and no one likes it, but it is what it is. A lot of players here refuse to learn somehow and will continue crying about SPAA being OP or CAS being OP, with the exception of top tier where we still lacking better SAM systems to keep up against 10km+ A2G weapons. Everything depends on what they do and how to counter, when to counter, how to avoid.

[SOD1102]

Agreed, it was mean but I’m tired of him posting the same thing over and over without considering anyone else’s point.

I do think there are some other areas where CAS needs to be address. I also think as the OP of this thread stated that SPAA around 9.3-10.3 needs to be addressed. I don’t want CAS to be removed or even changed very much. People assume (not saying you) that if you don’t think SPAA is OP than you think CAS suffers or vice versa or that if you think certain vehicles (Cough Yak-9K Cough) are overperforming and harming the game that you hate the entire mechanic.

I will say that sometimes there is not anything you can do to avoid CAS other than just not be in that location at that time. CAS is an asymmetrical mechanic by design, which I think is why it is so upsetting to many players. This mostly comes down to a team thing, players don’t call out air targets often and the air target callout system is mostly useless when you are occupied trying to fight on the ground. War Thunder teammates are just generally awful all around 95% of the time, which leads to getting stomped, which leads to unrestricted CAS, which leads to forum posting. If there is any group of people I want to be my pallbearers, it’s my teammates in Ground RB, so they can let me down one last time.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@SOD1102

Skill. Issue

Projecting

[Creastroy]

@SOD1102

Longer time in game with less score

When enough planes are spawned, or in those matches with more than one rushing heli points should not be a problem. If there’s only one plane per game, maybe one guy would get it with SPAA, but the other SPAA will have nothing left. That’s discouraging on SPAA spawns.

@SOD1102

truthful

Sorry but it’s real :D

@SOD1102

TD

This is a great example on how Vehicle Types work without specific vehicles. TDs have lost their best suited map features, the designed niche for them to use their special capabilities.

It can be a scenario like:
TD does not work well in death valley, but when they encountered bad players, they would one shot them with the tremendous firepower. One may say they are strong for they one shots everything, the other side would argue about the protection and overpressure, the mobility and lack of stab, etc. etc. People always remember a worst feeling; here being one shot in a best armoured tank by a camper TD.

@SOD1102

You twisted my words

I could have a.w. ptsd sry. Quite award now with the line between too weak and not useable

@SOD1102

a light tank

This is why I enjoy T72B soooo much lol. Those Leo2A4s never have the space to use mobility, the slopes to use depression, the range to use thermals nor the chance to survive 3BM42 afterpen. This is what’s called theoretical disadvantages.

@SOD1102

approach from a different angle

PGZ09 does not care. So doesn’t M247. Many maps doesn’t even provide cover for pop ups e.g.poland east europe , in the case Kursk is seen as with cover. Also pop up with dumb weapon require 10x more skill for a sitting silent gepard to shoot from a not detected position.

@SOD1102

Request Team Support

Nonexistent/ Pushed to the spawn and get SPAA killed along with everyone else.

@SOD1102

Coordinate with other CAS

Nonexistent / will get a dead teammate and a turret turning towards you/ will get strelaed. idk maybe everyone’s good at spotting with strela.

anyways if 2v1 can’t overwhelm a single known SPAA, the CAS does need help.

@SOD1102

Give me a situation where as a plane you were unable to do ANYTHING (unable to attack any targets or make any game impact) and would have been able to do something as a tank.

Fly anything without a rwr to deal with a single PGZ09/M247/strela. Assume that a teammate plane is already sacrificed to let you know there is such SPAA somewhere on the other side of the map, but he only opened fire for 1 sec and moved: no you are not seeing that bit of flash. Assume it’s a normal team who won’t give accurate marks (they can’t even let a scout drone survive longer anyways).
Fly any Helirush without flying Ka. This is quite obvious lol with any autocannons at no ccip BRs and 2s38 at higher.

@SOD1102

I should have done this to avoid this situation

This reminds me of a strategy my friend used with su22m3. Climb to 6km and toss 500kgs to my accurate marks… and pray hard for spread, ccip accuracy, and that guy not to move. And my marks to be reliable & accurate too.

@SOD1102

I don’t understand how you could reasonably want to decrease this number any further

For this one we stand for the same thing. A further af and a further spawn is good for both sides.
And make ground battles last longer themselves

@SOD1102

9.0 below

8.x is okay-ish but I don’t think migs and sabres should try to toss their loads without ccip and compete with gepards xD and those MCLOS msl planes who wouldn’t like to move when actually trying to guide

and another thing to add is a part of CAS’ strength is further increase the winner’s advantage with the kills. It is purely a game design issue to make an advantage a larger advantage. Not spawn AA and they are gotta be tooo useful xD

[_Renzo]

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA is extremely easy to play. The only times that I lose to CAS is when there’s multiple planes attacking me at once (which in that case it’s not even about CAS, you’re at a disadvantage in a 1v3 anyways), and when I goof up and don’t watch my ammo.

CAS is just as easy tough. Most of the time I die to SPAA below 8.3 is when I get bored and throw my life away.

[Chocolate_Pasta]

From 8.3-10.3, CAS is almost dead, Radar SPAA VS Any jets without CCIP/RWR, SAM VS Helis, which even only has 3-5km range ATGM. Especially considering so many jet fighters’ BR is already lower than CAS.

[Morvran]

I don’t know if I entirely agree that CAS is “dead” but I’d say it’s about as close to balanced as you can get and there is an odd CAS that might need a little buff here or there

[Chocolate_Pasta]

Well, at least I don’t know how to use CAS without any AGM to counter like M247 or PGZ09, and how to use MI24 to counter Roland or other SAM around 9.7-10.3, they don’t even use radar, can easily find CAS position, even if you hide behind the mountains

Some of the players demand that the SPAA destroy CAS with the click of a mouse, which is similar like toptier CAS, frankly say there is no balance, just depends on which side lost control

[Morvran]

I’ve had a few good runs in the Harrier Gr3 using someone’s scouting to create a CCRP point and then buzz in at 50ft.

Though not a bracket I play often for a number of reasons.

At 10.3 I use FRS1, GR1A and Buc S2B with decent success

[noamax]

True spaa is pretty good at top tier ppl just overreacting to cas