Sovetsky Soyuz is blatantly Overpowered

[ParryACO-psn]

@Kweedko

Iowa 18.55 kg, Soyz - 25.7 kg, Vanguard - 22 kg, Rodney - 20kg, Richelieu - 21.92 kg where did u get double i dunno?

Soyuz 40.6cm APCBC: 39.58kg equivalent.
25.7kg explosive mass. 1108kg shell. 830 m/s. 852 to 572mm of penetration

Soyuz 40.6cm SAP: 88kg explosive mass. 1108kg shell. 830 m/s. 629 to 422mm of penetration. 28 second reload.

Iowa: 40.6cm Mk13 HE: 68.28kg equivalent.
69.67kg explosive mass. 820 m/s. 106 to 59mm

Iowa 40.6cm APCBC: 18.18kg equivalent, 18.55 explosive mass. 1225kg. 762m/s, 857 to 583mm of penetration. 29 second reload.

Yamato class 46cm HE: 64.77kg equivalent, 61.69kg explosive mass. 805 m/s. 123 to 57mm.

Yamato class 46cm APCBC: 25.05kg equivalent. 23.86kg explosive mass. 1458.3kg. 780 m/s. 870 to 603mm of penetration. 31.7 second reload.

Rodney 40.6cm APCBC: 20.9 kg explosive mass. 929kg projectile. 788 m/s 696 to 423mm, 35.3 second reload. (The exception in the list as this isn’t an end tier battleship but a 7.7. there’s going to be some serious differences due to lower battle rating.)

Rodney 40.6cm HE: 75.25kg explosive mass. 792 m/s. 101 to 61mm of penetration.

Vanguard 38cm SAP: 61.67kg explosive mass. 225 to 122mm of penetration. 752 m/s. 30 second reload.

Vanguard 38cm Mark 22b APCBC: 20.68kg equivalent. 22kg explosive mass. 805 m/s. 727 to 454mm of penetration. 879kg projectile.

Bismarck 38cm AP: 20.3kg explosive mass. 820 m/s. 701 to 435mm of penetration. 800kg projectile. 24 second reload.

Bismarck 38cm SAP: 35.04 kg explosive mass. 524 to 325 mm of penetration.

I think you get the point.

Not only does Soyuz have more explosive payload in its SAP than every HE listed but this also comes with the benefit of it sacrificing literally nothing for best in class gun performance. That’s not including its astronomically good AP whereas other guns or even the platform itself lose out on something.

Armor? Absolutely best in class.

Speed? Not an issue for her size.

Maneuverability? Great.

The simplest solution to hit Soyuz is to nerf its armor plates by about 15 to 20% and then adjust from there.

Doing this would literally adjust it to a playstyle similar to its battlecruiser cousins: great guns, but fragile.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@ParryACO-psn

The simplest solution to hit Soyuz is to nerf its armor plates by about 15 to 20% and then adjust from there.

Basically, remove the Cemented multiplier buff. Russians simply couldn’t make cemented plates thicker than 230mm… make it RHA instead.

That’s why they made them so thick on the first place; so the thickness would make up for the weaker material.

Instead, in WT, it gets BOTH the strongest material AND thickest thickness they designed to make up for the lack of such material.

[Morvran]

Also as a minor side note for Vanguard and Rodney, their reload times are 5 seconds longer than primary sources suggests, the current rate of fire is because the devs quote “considered it unnecessary to further increase the rate of fire” and rejected the report to increase the reload time by 5 seconds. Which suggests that reload rates can be used as a balancing mechanic. Soyuz therefore could also be given a longer reload to balance it against everyone else, but they wont

[ParryACO-psn]

I mean, if they keep the gun performance, hit the armor as suggested.

If the 15 to 20% nerf is too much, adjust accordingly. I’d argue this sort of nerf will at least give most other ships a possibility to fight back to some degree.

[Morvran]

That I do agree, but its something else to mitigate the shell performance if needed

[Kweedko]

@ParryACO-psn

I think you get the point.

Not only does Soyuz have more explosive payload in its SAP than every HE listed but this also comes with the benefit of it sacrificing literally nothing for best in class gun performance. That’s not including its astronomically good AP whereas other guns or even the platform itself lose out on something.

No i don’t get what you trying to say.

305 Russian SAP also have bigger filler than other SAPs of that caliber, heck even bigger than HE one of the same gun. Beside that SAP for that gun was developed and manufactured. Is that a problem that russian engineers twice choose this filler rate composition?

@Morvran

That I do agree, but its something else to mitigate the shell performance if needed

What performance? It’s basically the same as for similar shells all those filler kgs. mean almost nothing in game atm.

[ParryACO-psn]

@Kweedko

Beside that SAP for that gun was developed and manufactured. Is that a problem that russian engineers twice choose this filler rate composition?

The historical accuracy isn’t the argument here, game balance is.

[Kweedko]

@ParryACO-psn

The historical accuracy isn’t the argument here, game balance is.

How convenient, considering that all that armor argument is based on “historical accuracy”. Besides that all big guns filler performance already nerfed to abnormal level. So instead of demanding improves on all big guns performance you continue to ask for nerf just one ship.

Ok lets pretend, they nerfed reload and filler(which will change nothing) and Soyz KDR dropped to Iowa lvl(which almost the same), then what you will ask to nerf it further, now armor, ok done it’s still good what next another round of nerf? So now you have Iowa top dog, will we nerf it too? Will we continue to nerf all ships until they all be the same? Year ago was a moment when barbet fire almost guaranteed kill, which was “kinda balanced” but community opposed that(cause “ugh he killed me it’s not fair”) so now we have ships that explode form barbets fire and those which is not is it now more “balanced” for you.

To what level you all here want to nerf it to be contented?

ps. I think some sort of balance will not be achieved with some “ship nerfs”, but with bug fixes, mechanic improvements and redesigns of some game systems and maps, and you all should demand that instead of running circles mumbling “Soyz bullied me, nurf now”, but for sure it’s harder then this.

[ParryACO-psn]

@Kweedko

How convenient, considering that all that armor argument is based on “historical accuracy”.

My argument was on the basis it would actually allow other ships to fight against it instead of having to just accept they do basically nothing against it.

A Tosa at 6km literally struggles to penetrate it full broadside, even with shooting the back of the turrets while it’s shooting another ship. You think that’s okay?

It’s literally the Scharnhorst problem and my solution to it is reasonable. Every other ship sacrifices something in comparison or has some drawback.

I even suggested if 15 to 20% reduction to the armor is too much, adjust until it’s a reasonable balance. Guns untouched to put it like Kronshtadt, Sevastopol and Stalingrad: Great guns, squishy hull. Although the ‘squishy hull’ would be less pronounced on Soyuz since it’s still a battleship.

Edit

When the outcome of the match is decided on who has a Pr23/has more Pr23s, there’s a balance problem.

[Kweedko]

@ParryACO-psn

My argument was on the basis it would actually allow other ships to fight against it instead of having to just accept they do basically nothing against it.

So what’s the problem “lets nerf Courbe cause it can’t be pened by Moffet” kind of logic.

@ParryACO-psn

A Tosa at 6km literally struggles to penetrate it full broadside, even with shooting the back of the turrets while it’s shooting another ship. You think that’s okay?

That your skill issue here. Should we nerf something based on misconceptions and bad play?

@ParryACO-psn

When the outcome of the match is decided on who has a Pr23/has more Pr23s, there’s a balance problem.

Except those matches where it doesn’t and team without Soyzes(or have less them) won against team with them.

[SilentTracker]

@ParryACO-psn Is this the first time you have dealt with Kweedko?

@Morvran
@SPANISH_AVENGER

Most people just mute Kweedko. He does nothing but gaslight and try to get the RU botes buffed so he can continue seal clubbing with them. He is NEVER honest with his intentions in his posts.

Best to ignore him, or block him. I have had him blocked for over a year now, and he has still not posted a one redeeming post. Nothing but gaslighting and lies, always.

Even the RU players on the RU forums give him hell for his absurd posts.

He is also at least partially responsible for the ruining of Naval Arcade aiming, and he intentionally hid the poll that caused the change from the English forums. He knows what he did. He doesn’t care. He ONLY cares about himself and what HE likes and wants. He will NEVER admit anything that he does, and will only lie and gaslight to hide his true goals.

Expand my reply below to read about what he did with the aiming changes, and for quotes from the RU forums where they cannot stand him either:

Poll regarding new aiming system

@Kweedko The only question I have is: did you post any links to this poll on the English forums for us to see, comment, and vote on before it was closed? Or did you keep this information to yourself because you knew so many of us agree that the new Naval Arcade aiming should be reverted? I see 0 results from you linking to this poll on the forums here: [image] You obviously know how to post links to the RU forums here on the English forums, you constantly post links that support YOUR opinion, …

Just ignore and/or block him. He is not worth a single one sentence reply.

[ParryACO-psn]

@Kweedko

That your skill issue here. Should we nerf something based on misconceptions and bad play?

There’s always a possibility of bad play.

There’s also the possibility of packet loss, ping and a dozen other factors at play.

Except it’s consistent. It’s not ‘Oh I played five matches and called it a day’, Kweed. Don’t try to gaslight me.

@Kweedko

So what’s the problem “lets nerf Courbe cause it can’t be pened by Moffet” kind of logic.

Did you forget that the moffett for a while could penetrate the Yamato’s barbettes? Which still may or may not have been fixed?

There is a keen difference between a DD and a BB. The gymnastics aren’t going to work against me.

Edit

@SilentTracker

Is this the first time you have dealt with Kweedko?

I’ve seen him post before but I haven’t been aware of his antics.

[SylasDr]

I mean looking at his pictures with the pens on the Soyuz ud really wonder what kind of stuff he thinks. Man takes screenshots of relatively close range shots at a literally unangled Soyuz and then is like “what are u talking about we can pen it with these ships”…

[Kweedko]

I’m not the one who stated that Soyz can not been penned from a broadside on relatively close ranges by japs 8.0.

[ParryACO-psn]

Struggle =/= inability.

It still took several salvos to finally detonate the magazine.

@SylasDr

I mean looking at his pictures with the pens on the Soyuz ud really wonder what kind of stuff he thinks

In his defense, I did say the 41cm IJN BBs struggle to pen at 6km.

Which they do.

[SylasDr]

Pretty sure a lot of “cant pen at x distance” really just comes down to the velocity of the shells cause slow as hell shells do tend to just come in at stupid angles even at low ranges

[Kweedko]

If penning 530-490 mm combined barbet + armor belt is a struggle i dunno what is not. And where it’s ammo is, it have even less armor. It’s ridiculous that people demanded bigger maps which favor good ships more - get them and now moan that they can’t handle those armor.

Soyzes don’t die often not cause they are invincible(and they are far less durable that Scharnhorst was before, due to changes in mechanics and easy ammo detonations), but because nobody wants to attack them, preferer a weaker targets. And most of those who dare to attack don’t even know where its ammo is.

btw. Iowa have slightly more armor on barbets than Soyz, and her armor is sloped and spaced. Lets nerf it ASAP.

And Yamato also have similar armor and on most places even better than Soyz have, does it helps - no, cause it bugged as hell form the start. Do people demand it’s been fixed as they demand Soyz nerf - no.

Soyz fine other ships are fu…d.

Hell even matchmaker uneven game composition is way bigger problem than anything discussed here and it fix will brim way more balance to gameplay then any nerf but do community demand it to be fixed - no? Community Bug Reporting System

[ParryACO-psn]

It is common knowledge the in-hangar shot simulation does not properly reflect shell behavior in-match.

@Kweedko

And Yamato also have similar armor and on most places even better than Soyz have,

Yeah, in places nobody ever shoots and places that are not advantageous to it whatsoever in warthunder.

Stop strawmanning, it looks silly.

[Kweedko]

@ParryACO-psn

It is common knowledge the in-hangar shot simulation does not properly reflect shell behavior in-match.

Didn’t you saw previous screenshot where Soyz is easily penned from 9+ km. Looks like you are the one strawmoanning here, ignoring facts.

[ParryACO-psn]

Screenshots, not video.

For all we know you could have fired a dozen salvos to finally get a penetration to conveniently screenshot for.

That’s also on the dev server.

Not live.

Edit

Let’s not forget shells have a shallower arc at closer range. The difference in arc at 6km could be the reason they’re struggling vs 9.72km in your screenshots - if we are to take them at face value.