I really don’t find CAS to be much of an issue in GAB. The limited time people have in planes basically means that they function as a “killstreak reward”. Players get a short-term burst of power from the aircraft and then they’re forced back into their tanks. In GAB, CAS does not decide the outcome of the match, ground vehicle gameplay does.
Making them into a spawn will introduce all of the problems from GRB into GAB, which is a bad idea to say the least.
Require the player to cap a zone first or get intelligence awards as an additional thing before spawning any sort of aircraft.
With it working as currently where the RNG can rig the odds of you doing anything because you have limited time to do anything before you get shot at in a bomber, it’s not acceptable to penalise player for this. And it would be really hard to implement something that figures out if it’s player’s fault for crashing into the ground when he’s also being shot at which affects flight mechanics when damaged. Take a look at all the situations where game is counting your damage plane as a kill despite you being able to still fly, which gets really cool to try and land such heavily damaged plane at airfield, but game’s already counting it as not possible to control and forces you to bail out. There’s no correct solution for fairly penalising players for using planes other than making the conditions fair which means the same setup as in ground RB or naval AB where plane is your normal vehicle to play until you get killed.
Ground RB has proper setup for this which makes some equipment increase the point cost significantly for the plane. Good example is that you can rush the point and cap it on 3.7 and be able to jump into XA-38, but you cannot do this with armor piercing rounds in its 75mm gun, but you need to kill something and do some assist on top of that to get enough points to effectively use the gun, at which point it means you probably have to pick a vehicle that can survive some combat a bit and maybe it’s not worth bailing out right away. It would make a lot of sense to be able to pick out a heavy bomber with some semi-useless loadout in contrast to how unmaneuverable it is and need a lot of points to actually take out a loudout that makes sense to use that thing, because it means either you have cover to be able to go drop bombs and get back safely, or you’re going to waste that big amount of points in attempt to change the tide of battle while knowing you will loose the plane after that.
The planes are a problem to balance because they are not idiot-proof to use. This causes a lot of people trying to use them to lower down their stats. First the helicopters should be made in a way that you can easily shoot with them, then let’s get back to a discussion of points required to take out advanced ordnance - it’s already the same thing in ground RB where you can start with early helis, but in most of them except for some soviet ones, you can’t pick out a good guided missile from the start.
So exactly the same approach as GFRB and naval - a spawn point system and treat it as normal spawned unit and not a limited-time power up.
Yeah, until it actually does. The new “reward” system makes it so that I sometimes can do 3 bombing runs in a row. I think this works like this: if you make more than enough kills for the heavy bomber while playing the objective, there’s higher chance you’ll get the 3 air mission points after surviving your initial flight. And if you manage to make 3 kills or more with bombs and survive, or something similar, it also has high chance of you getting those 3 points for another air mission. I’ve had many matches where if I was the first one to pick out a bomber thanks to be being able to do like 4-5 early kills with VFW (I do 3 kills and kill one or two more during the count down to air mission), I do a bombing run that is successful and I get another one, and if in another one I also kill a lot, I get the third one. These things happen.
And also this means I’m denying the opposite team the opportunity to use the bomber. And not only that, but playing in a squad you are able to know when the current air mission finishes to be ready to have higher chance of taking the bomber for yourself and denying it the opposite team. While playing in squads of 3 or 4 we often do this that there’s always someone from our team doing the bombing run.
The problem of planes in RB is that there’s no lead indicator and you have to spend a lot of time playing SPAA to actually start doing something. This means a lot of people don’t bother, so if you want to play tank, there’s high chance that SPAAs start popping out only after a lot of people are pounded with bombs out of their spawn points so they are forced to take out the SPAA. Give players both in SPAAs and in planes the lead indicator that’s in AB, and it’ll be a completely different dynamic in those battles. The problems don’t translate 1:1 from GFAB exactly because of the fact that the conditions in those modes are different.
It may work against campers, but it makes the conditions complicated to show how these work. Look at how they are unable to make an indicator that easily shows how much more points you need to be able to get nuke. And now you want to add something the the base requirement - they definitely won’t go for it.
And while it sounds interesting, this might mean that now you are penalising the players that play SPGs and don’t charge the objective, so it’s another point against going this route.
Still waiting for a chance seems we need to wait another 10 years hard for them to make the game better, a serious disappointment.
If this somehow gets implemented it would need to come with another change as well
I have crappy luck with this - when I get a bomber, enemy fighter spawns right behind me and no matter what I do, I’m shot down before I have a chance to drop bombs. BUT, when I get a fighter it’s 1.3 km away and the enemy bomber is about to drop bombs.
Really what they need to do is allow max of ONE plane per person. Once you earn it, it stays available until used. Use it wisely.
I agree completely. So many times I’ve hopped into a bomber, there’s a fighter right behind me. I can barely drop a single bomb - let alone dropped anywhere near an enemy vehicle - without being immediately shot down. CAS in WT is an absolute joke.
The suggestions passed seem to avoid anything expensive or risky to implement to keep the status quo. This is indeed counterproductive…
Try doing this after you have completed all the tasks or when you don’t do tasks for the season for some time. It’ll start getting better :)
But yeah, the RNG with plane spawn location comes from the fact that in limited time for the whole encounter, there’s always going to be a loser so supposedly the RNG is supposed to shuffle this somehow.
About one plane per person - interesting idea, I don’t think I’ve seen this one. But if you do it with current system, it’s going to penalise the players that get unlucky to use the plane when others do and they’ll have others on their tails. It’s just better to implement the system from naval / ground RB.
With that said, I do believe that all planes and open top vehicles/boats should have some kind of suppression mechanic implemented so when you’re being shot at, it affects the crew that would be able to shoot back and your visibility, so chasing bombers right on their tails and strafing SPAAs wouldn’t be that easy.
I’ve had two matches with my squad mates where they would cover my back and tell me I’m clear to bomb when I was already lawnmowing with my props because fighters split me in half, just to see my bomber fly over the battlefield straight when I got back to my tank. I was stupid to not capture this, but I have a video of similar situation where my bomber stopped in the air in spawn location, while I could see SPAAs shoot at something flying over the combat zone, only to see the bomber teleport to the other side of the map after the time limit. I do believe there is a possibility to have multiple outcomes in a single air mission because of those three situations.
That teleporting sounds like desync.
man I love it when CAS spawn’s in right behind are ground spawn
Not sure what you mean by the bolded part.
I hopped on this site today and saw this thread.
“Hey! People have started a thread about GAB CAS! Great!”
Then after reading a few posts I noted the date of when the thread started. I started playing in March (?) and the problems are the same, if not worse since I started.
All concerns are legitimate and problematic to the game as it makes for a broken game, IMO.
The problem lies not only with the issues mentioned but the fact that there are many players who only play to CAS. I ran into one of those players a few nights ago. He came into the server and spawned a plane as quickly as he could. He had no ground kills when he spawned a plane and he probably sat in spawn until he could spawn a plane.
He only came to my attention because he bombed our spawn with a Welly, taking out five of us that had just spawned.
That got my attention and I kept an eye on him. His feet did not touch the ground, so to speak. Every one of his ground kills was from bombing spawns.
I challenged his behavior and he said he only came in to pad his stats by bombing spawns and I should not give him grief about it. I was a cry-baby troll.
I mentioned his attitude toward the other players was more of a troll seeing as his sole desire was to ruin the game for others by bombing them in their spawn. He did not have to fear losing a life or spawn in a plane, all he had to do was wait for the queue to open up and jump in another plane.
That is the attitude of most of those who use CAS in GAB. They are incapable of getting that kill on the ground, thus they use that free life to get kills they otherwise cannot get.
It’s about getting the bomber when other players have points to go in as interceptors. If you limit it to one plane per game and someone can’t do anything because of interceptors spawning right on his tail, it’ll be even more annoying.
If you only get one plane per game, I was assuming enemies could no longer spawn right behind you.
IF for some reason they continue to allow that, at the very least the bombers should spawn at a much higher altitude. That way for fighter to intercept they must climb, giving bombers a chance to drop ordinance.
There was a time two years back when every week or two for around a year there was a new thread in discussion about arcade on the CAS…
Big part of the player base are people who are mainly playing planes and I guess gaijin is most experienced in catering to their needs and wants because the game started out with planes.
Also big part of the player base are grinding whenever they can, so they will use the bombers to score additional points.
Also about the guy that you mentioned - how did he get the first streak to go into the plane though? I know there’s a luck factor in getting the reward points to use the planes again, but it’s rare to keep doing the same thing. And to get “free” points, it takes most of the match while being around the fight.
If this is with current setup, it’ll be even more annoying to people. Right now to do a clean bombing run you probably need to score quick 3 kills early on before anyone else can jump on the interceptor. But when you do, it’s a lot easier to score. Imagine what happens if every air mission is like this.
For me this would make the game unplayable, it would turn the GFAB into a CAS fest because every bombing run would be unobstructed unless SPAA takes care of it. And at the same time if you get a bomber with poor loadout, it’s penalizing in comparison to everyone else getting some good loadout.
The GFRB/Naval approach is the correct one. There’s no reason to do it differently in a hacky RNG way like it is now. In naval it would make more sense if the game was coastal vessels only, because if you take a look at the dynamic of the naval battle, once planes are out, people stop spawning in coastal vessels and that’s it. That’s why naval feels like a bad example to follow, but it’s as if everyone started pulling out a maus with twin AI-controlled/AutoAimed SPAA turrets on top of it’s turret, and this is not happening in the ground battles.
There’s a ton of things that could have been done better in the game, but suggestion threads for gameplay improvements are barely moving forward - just some filler stuff is being pushed through to devs.
I am not surprised as it is an obvious issue with the game.
No streak is needed in GAB. All one has to do is spawn and wait for the plane marker to highlight then they can jump into a plane. A plane in this game-type is a free life so if you get shot down you do not have to worry about losing a re-spawn. This makes it appealing to those who like bombing ground forces and still have lives left to spawn more planes if they get shot down.
The ability to use a plane only lasts for about 30 seconds (?) to a minute, but there are points above the map that you can fly to and immediately spawn in another plane. This is how that guy was able to stay in the air for most of the match.
This allows a person to continually be in the air, able to bomb spawns with impunity, and continue to do so throughout the match.
I honestly do not know if one can actually grind planes in GAB as you do not know what kind of plane you are going to spawn in, only that it will be a fighter or a bomber, depending on what type of plane you choose to get into. I know that the few times I have spawned a plane I had no idea what kind of plane it was until I was in it, only that it was a fighter or a bomber.
I get it, but there are many, many players who came into the game due to the ground battle aspect, as I did.
I played COD and COD 4 for years, becoming very, very, very good at it, but got back into sim racing and got bored with the game. Sim racing can be a grind due to testing set ups for the major events such as the Daytona 24, Bathurst 12 and Sebring, which come one after the other. I turned to this game to get a break from the sim racing grind and wanted to fight in tanks. It seemed like fun.
it still is but the planes take away from any ground strategy you may try to develop because if you do get a superior position and use that position to hold a cap or take away from the enemies main thrust to a cap, one plane can ruin that strategy. Another problem is that the AA in my levels is very iffy at best. I have more success using my coaxial or commander’s MG and baiting the plane into a head on so I can shoot it with my main gun, than any luck I have had with AA.
The problem is that then distracts from the ground game and even opens you up to being pushed.
I like the game but I play it for the tanks, not the planes.
I think the solution is call ground RB what it is, combined battles.
Two improvements I think are absolutely necessary:
The reasoning for the above is as follows:
SPAA:
All manually aimed SPAAs in the game are worse at engaging planes than any fighter at the same BR. What I mean is that any Battle Rating 3.7 fighter will be better at engaging enemy planes than any 3.7 SPAA by a considerable margin. With the exception of vehicles like the Lvkv 2 and the AMX DCA40, all SPAA are inferior to any tank of a equivalent BR by a considerable margin. What I mean is that same BR 3.7 SPAA is worse in the anti tank role than Any non SPAA ground unit at the same BR.
What this means is that SPAA is severely compromised in the anti air role, and severely compromised in the anti tank role. This isn’t to say that skilled and practised players haven’t made SPAA work quite effectively, I’m just saying that they’re unfairly position in the BR in my opinion.
Allowing Fighters/Planes with no ground attack armaments to spawn at the Beginning of Ground Battles:
Ground RB currently offers a very unique version of Air RB that is an interesting halfway point between Realistic and Sim. There are no player markers so each plane needs to be visually identified, the lobbies for aircraft are smaller allowing for a slightly different dynamic when dogfighting. Ground Attack Planes and Bombers have meaningful and fun targets to engage on the ground. Heavy fighters and interceptors have a greater chance of being useful as the meta won’t purely be dominated by fighters.
Finally, by having planes spawn at the beginning of ground matches with SPAA that are decent threat to other ground vehicles, air defence becomes an active part of the game as opposed to reactive part of the game. The SPAA will have targets both in the air and on the ground from the beginning of the match making the vehicle more meaningful to play. That way you don’t end up in a situation where you spawn an SPAA and have no targets. Players are more likely to spawn SPAA at the start of a match rather than waiting until they die to CAS to begin the anti aircraft role.
Sir.
This is GAB, not GRB - very, very different system.
I know how this works. But actually I tried if you can just stay idle and see if you will get any points for the plane and it takes a lot if you just stay out of fight. The fact that the guy didn’t have any kills in tank, doesn’t mean he didn’t participate in a fight, for example just bouncing the shots on his own.
Once again - tried staying idle and seeing how much time it takes for the game to give me single point for a fighter and it took most of the game time if I was far away from the fight.
“allows” is an overstatement. That’s RNG based on how successful you were in doing something and surviving the air mission in your plane. Sometimes I have air mission without any interceptors and I get +3 points after killing few guys with bombs and multiple times, so I can run 3 or even sometimes 4 bombing runs, sometimes I get interceptors on my time, kill the same amount and survive despite being shot at and I don’t get any points back. It’s not a reliable assumption that someone will just use it to be continuously in the air.
You’re not grinding/spading the plane, they are set with specific fixed setup. You can earn research points to unlock new planes iirc, or at least helicopters?
One thing is that this is their role to counter such situations, the other thing is that the air mission setup makes it so that you cannot really have players actively controlling the air continuously with their fighters to prevent bombing runs, and it’s just RNG deciding the air mission chances to succeed in bombing.
SPAA aiming is a facade in the game - it’s not skill, but RNG based on how spaded your vehicle and the crew is and the game will rng-out the chances depending on who’s death is more likely to extend the average player play time.
Planes should have ground AI SPAA targets that are a challenge to take out before they can get through to the ground combat zone.
I like that the planes are in the ground battles, it’s just implemented incorrectly, but at the same time, I would love to have public competitive matchmaking with the modes like the tournament 4v4s without planes. But it seems we won’t have that because it’s a risk that everyone would jump to that showing how many don’t want to play with aircraft.
No, the problem is not that SPAAs should be tank killers. They should be a deterrent against CAS, so there needs to be some mechanic that makes it so that you don’t want to strafe targets with AA guns. Doing things that correspond to what you have in naval would make sense - make all tanks with turret-top .50 cals and such have this switch to auto defend against aircraft. Imagine everyone on your side automatically shooting at strafing dude like in naval. Or you can switch it off when you want to be sneaky.
Why? You want less people playing tanks from the start? Also what defines “without ground attack weapons”? You can still strafe open tops. I do agree though that not requiring points to take part into interception or cover mission could change it for better.
Like I said many times, they are not a deterrent and the game is direct “bare-metal” implementation of balance between those units (SPAA and CAS) without taking into account human factor and actual strategy of use of those units.
That’s an interesting assumption, but I think you only take out spaa if you’re supposed to make those kind of kills and if you want to defend yourself when bombing run starts. I don’t really believe this would have effect if those planes can’t actually do CAS work.