Because you are being insulting where I am criticising.
Either way we neither have to continue nor to agree.
I would agree to disagree but putting our assumptions to the test would have been preferable.
If you do not want to continue debating there is no need to be insulting.
Have a nice day.
I don’t need to 1v1 someone on a game who says that the mirage has to manage wing sweep as you said above when tea said that last he checked it doesn’t have to manage it…
You are the person being insulting sir. Hence why folks are actively bailing on the thread.
Never said that…
🤨
Hardly matters now either way.
Have a good one.
Behold, variable geometry mirage. (not an F1)
Don’t message me, I do not need your tripe clogging my messages. Especially not when you’re trying to refute something you stuck to quite heavily. Yes, it is obvious the mig 23 has variable geometry wings. Which is what I said. You decided to be contrarian when I highlighted unlike the Mig 23, the Mirage F1 does not need to manage wing sweep. You can’t backtrack now, bud. You’ve already demonstrated your level of honesty, and no one wants to engage with it. Good day, do not bother me.
Scroll up and recheck.
Only for the sake of correctness:
You said Mirage F.1 doesn’t need to manage wing sweep to keep up with MiG-23. (It obviously can not employ wing sweep since it is no swept wing aircraft).
I told you to check again implying that F.1 really would need wing sweep as well as more wing area to keep up with a MiG-23 rating at lower speeds.
In this regime MiG-23 has F.1 beat in game.
Having an eye for detail can be quite handy.
Wether we should thank our lucky stars that Mirage G is not in game would be a entire discussion of it’s own we both are likely unwilling to have so I also wish you a nice day despite your rudeness.
Just put the shovel down, the hole is getting too deep for you to get out of, and you’ve been such an unpleasant guest that no one will help you out of it if you continue. You can twist what you said into knots for all I care, it still does not change your statement was indicative of the Mirage F1 (which is not the Mirage G) having variable geometry wings. As I said, do not bother me. You are not worth my time.
Whatever you say m8.
Clearly yes lmao.
Not my fault you can’t read responses longer than three lines.
Go back to whatever brainlet short form content farm you love so much
Please stop with the senseless argumentation guys. You are just clogging the thread and not bringing anything of value to the orignal intent of the discussion.
It’s always annoying to have such discussions going in a completely wrong direction and get 60 ping messages on a conversation for no reason. Take it to DM if you want to keep on those discussions
Hey man, if you want to nerf France even more, be my guest. Just make sure you nerf it after I’m done grinding it.
I was looking for some pics of the f1C pre 200 with magics 2 in french service and couldn’t find them, if you could share them with me i would love it
So here are some of them :
If few photos are available it is because the squadrons that were deployed on the theaters of operation (and which were therefore equipped with weapons) had mainly F1 C-200 because the refueling boom allowed them to stay in the air longer. The F1 C were therefore simply not often equipped with their missiles because they remained on French territory. It should also be noted that the F1 C 200 is generally called simply F1 C (particularly in army documents because the refueling pole is removable, thus leaving little difference) unlike CT and CR variants which are clearly differentiated from classic C.
Short Version (F1C only)
Remove: Matra R.550 Magic 2
Retain: R.550 Magic 1, R.530 (and R.530E), Super 530F
Optional: AIM-9P-4 or “JULI” upgrade for limited all-aspect Fox 2
Long Version
Some of you have, unhelpfully, turned a thread about F1C missiles into, well, not that. Let’s try to stay on target.
The problem: The F1C’s Magic 2 is wildly overpowered at BR 12.0, but nobody’s seriously proposed what should go in its place. Simply yanking out the Magic 2s leaves empty rails and zero context.
The proposal (F1C only; F1CT & F1C-200 untouched; AG unchanged):
Remove: R.550 Magic 2
Keep:
Magic 1 (rear-aspect Fox 2; in service 1968–77)
R.530 / R.530E (early SARH Fox 1; in service 1976–80)
Super 530F (improved SARH Fox 1+; delivered from late 1979)
Why this works at BR 11.7:
You sacrifice the over-tuned Magic 2 and drop just 0.3 BR.
You gain a complete engagement envelope:
Long-range: Super 530F
Mid-range: R.530/R.530E
Short-range: Magic 1 (+ optional P-4/JULI for all-aspect)
Retains the F1C’s renowned agility and acceleration, its missiles, not flight model, define its role.
Historically accurate for French and early export F1Cs pre to early 1980’s
Bottom line: Move the F1C down to BR 11.7, sloting it in an existing gap, and let Gaijin keep the F1’s flight performance intact. The F1CT and C-200 stay where they are, preserving variant differentiation. This way the C may find some play as its completly overshadowed by the C-200, same thing but better rewards, and the CT with its improved electronice suite.
People have explained why butchering what we currently have is senseless. People have explained why there is the solution of an F1C early. Just because you don’t like it is no reason to pretend the discourse did not happen. Magic 2s are competent at the BR, and would only be “overpowered” as you claim if they were representative of a more modern variant, for want of a better term. At present, they are on parity with platforms carrying 4 x (Other IRCCM missile).
Which really validates that you should be putting the energy behind an early variant being added, and not the degradation of current depictions.
I must admit that I have a problem with this argument and the answer you propose. If indeed the Magic 2 is problematic as you say in 12.0, then removing the missile from the Mirage F1 C does not solve the problem at all because the F1C 200 and the CT have the same armament at the same BR, it would have to be removed from all 3 aircraft.
Besides, the Magic 2 is not “overpowered” in 12.0. The missile is good but the planes of this Br are equipped with weapons that make them just as good. Where I agree is that the Magic 2 is too powerful in dowtier because the planes it faces cannot compete
Another problem I see is that, even though the F1 C 200 is much more present in the game than the classic C, not everyone can afford it. Personally, I only have the C from the tech tree and it would really bother me if you were to nerf the only air combat version that is unlockable.
If the question is really to fill the gap, however, I agree that there is something to be done, which is why I proposed adding a new aircraft in the form of an F1 C (early) which would perfectly fill the current gap.
Which is why this hack and slash campaign they are insistent upon is senseless, and instead the energy should be put towards supporting the addition of an early variant if they really feel that the changes would warrant a place. These two aircraft provide the same experience to someone who wants to pay for a premium version, and those who either do not want to or cannot afford. Which is really what we should push for all premiums.
Removing the Magic 2s is far from butchering the F1C. It would be problematic to remove them and keep the current BR, but if removed and lowered, then it’s a trade off. One thats downsides are largely mitigated by the 2 other, very similar, F1 variants ingame.
Looking at the whole picture, France has no 11.3/7 aircraft at all, and only a single 11.0, the BeNeLux 104G. the jump from 11.0 to 12.0 is unhealthy for the tree, and there is a solution that is easily implemented.
Adding a 3rd variant is an option, but unnecessary. In the Air to Air regime, the C200 already performs nearly identically, and the CTs avionics kit makes moving it down less viable.
For most players, the F1C is just a RP roadblock to the Mirage 2000. Giving the C a unique loadout amonge the F1 variants gives it the chance to move out of the shadow of the other 2, better, versions. Adding a C Early at best folders the F1C below it, making the C even LESS present in game, or at worst, adds another RP roadblock to the Mirage 2000 that most players wont use.
To be honest, having an early F1C added or removing the Magic 2s from the aircraft is just as simple. France also has a large number of other aircraft that could be added to this bracket to complete it.
The other problem I see is that the CT is destined to move up to Br in the short to medium term, if the ECMs and other CM pods are added into the game, this aircraft will benefit enormously and will end up in 12.3 or higher, leaving no aircraft in 12.0
I don’t think that’s a good argument. The entire French tree is just there so that players don’t directly unlock the Rafale. Nobody plays the Mirage 2000 (to put it simply, based on StatShark’s monthly stats, I alone represented 5% of the games played in Mirage 2000C S5 a few month age), the only plane in the tree that really interests players is really the Rafale.
You mean this butchery is mitigated by the one strike variant that will go up in the future, provided they develop the missing features, and the one premium version that is explicitly identical to make it so there isn’t disparate experience between tech tree players and premium players?
This could be covered by a myriad other options. Astoundingly, like an F1C early, which would introduce a smoother curve than just removing the weapons from the F1C that you want to remove. Weapons which are accurate, and make uptiers far more tolerable than if it were to be 11.7 without them. It would facilitate the difference in platforms you apparently desire, whilst not introducing disparity between the tech tree player and the premium player. Folders were put in place to facilitate things like this.
The C200 performs virtually identically because it is the same bloody plane to maintain parity between the tech tree players and the premium players. It is good to have this parity for the health of the game. This parity is not reason to degrade one or the other.
The F1C will generally only ever appeal to those fond of the aircraft, its history, or its design. A different loadout would not encourage it to be utilised further, and degrading it by removing historical features would disincentivise the use even further as it would struggle to compete in an uptier. The addition of the F1C early would facilitate those who would rather the early version the opportunity to use it, not degrade parity between tech tree and premium players, and further validate the usefulness of folders to encourage other similar systems being implemented in future.
Assuming even buddy lasing gets sorted, it would go up in BR. An F1C early would facilitate a more gradual slope in this eventuality than saying “Hey, if you want a 12.0, fork out an arm and a leg”.
