Clearly yes lmao.
Not my fault you can’t read responses longer than three lines.
Go back to whatever brainlet short form content farm you love so much
Please stop with the senseless argumentation guys. You are just clogging the thread and not bringing anything of value to the orignal intent of the discussion.
It’s always annoying to have such discussions going in a completely wrong direction and get 60 ping messages on a conversation for no reason. Take it to DM if you want to keep on those discussions
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Hey man, if you want to nerf France even more, be my guest. Just make sure you nerf it after I’m done grinding it.
I was looking for some pics of the f1C pre 200 with magics 2 in french service and couldn’t find them, if you could share them with me i would love it
So here are some of them :
If few photos are available it is because the squadrons that were deployed on the theaters of operation (and which were therefore equipped with weapons) had mainly F1 C-200 because the refueling boom allowed them to stay in the air longer. The F1 C were therefore simply not often equipped with their missiles because they remained on French territory. It should also be noted that the F1 C 200 is generally called simply F1 C (particularly in army documents because the refueling pole is removable, thus leaving little difference) unlike CT and CR variants which are clearly differentiated from classic C.
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Short Version (F1C only)
Remove: Matra R.550 Magic 2
Retain: R.550 Magic 1, R.530 (and R.530E), Super 530F
Optional: AIM-9P-4 or “JULI” upgrade for limited all-aspect Fox 2
Long Version
Some of you have, unhelpfully, turned a thread about F1C missiles into, well, not that. Let’s try to stay on target.
The problem: The F1C’s Magic 2 is wildly overpowered at BR 12.0, but nobody’s seriously proposed what should go in its place. Simply yanking out the Magic 2s leaves empty rails and zero context.
The proposal (F1C only; F1CT & F1C-200 untouched; AG unchanged):
-
Remove: R.550 Magic 2
-
Keep:
Magic 1 (rear-aspect Fox 2; in service 1968–77)
R.530 / R.530E (early SARH Fox 1; in service 1976–80)
Super 530F (improved SARH Fox 1+; delivered from late 1979)
- Optional add: AIM-9P-4 (or Spanish “JULI”) for limited all-aspect Fox 2 without IRCCM
Why this works at BR 11.7:
You sacrifice the over-tuned Magic 2 and drop just 0.3 BR.
You gain a complete engagement envelope:
Long-range: Super 530F
Mid-range: R.530/R.530E
Short-range: Magic 1 (+ optional P-4/JULI for all-aspect)
Retains the F1C’s renowned agility and acceleration, its missiles, not flight model, define its role.
Historically accurate for French and early export F1Cs pre to early 1980’s
Bottom line: Move the F1C down to BR 11.7, sloting it in an existing gap, and let Gaijin keep the F1’s flight performance intact. The F1CT and C-200 stay where they are, preserving variant differentiation. This way the C may find some play as its completly overshadowed by the C-200, same thing but better rewards, and the CT with its improved electronice suite.
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People have explained why butchering what we currently have is senseless. People have explained why there is the solution of an F1C early. Just because you don’t like it is no reason to pretend the discourse did not happen. Magic 2s are competent at the BR, and would only be “overpowered” as you claim if they were representative of a more modern variant, for want of a better term. At present, they are on parity with platforms carrying 4 x (Other IRCCM missile).
Which really validates that you should be putting the energy behind an early variant being added, and not the degradation of current depictions.
I must admit that I have a problem with this argument and the answer you propose. If indeed the Magic 2 is problematic as you say in 12.0, then removing the missile from the Mirage F1 C does not solve the problem at all because the F1C 200 and the CT have the same armament at the same BR, it would have to be removed from all 3 aircraft.
Besides, the Magic 2 is not “overpowered” in 12.0. The missile is good but the planes of this Br are equipped with weapons that make them just as good. Where I agree is that the Magic 2 is too powerful in dowtier because the planes it faces cannot compete
Another problem I see is that, even though the F1 C 200 is much more present in the game than the classic C, not everyone can afford it. Personally, I only have the C from the tech tree and it would really bother me if you were to nerf the only air combat version that is unlockable.
If the question is really to fill the gap, however, I agree that there is something to be done, which is why I proposed adding a new aircraft in the form of an F1 C (early) which would perfectly fill the current gap.
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Which is why this hack and slash campaign they are insistent upon is senseless, and instead the energy should be put towards supporting the addition of an early variant if they really feel that the changes would warrant a place. These two aircraft provide the same experience to someone who wants to pay for a premium version, and those who either do not want to or cannot afford. Which is really what we should push for all premiums.
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Removing the Magic 2s is far from butchering the F1C. It would be problematic to remove them and keep the current BR, but if removed and lowered, then it’s a trade off. One thats downsides are largely mitigated by the 2 other, very similar, F1 variants ingame.
Looking at the whole picture, France has no 11.3/7 aircraft at all, and only a single 11.0, the BeNeLux 104G. the jump from 11.0 to 12.0 is unhealthy for the tree, and there is a solution that is easily implemented.
Adding a 3rd variant is an option, but unnecessary. In the Air to Air regime, the C200 already performs nearly identically, and the CTs avionics kit makes moving it down less viable.
For most players, the F1C is just a RP roadblock to the Mirage 2000. Giving the C a unique loadout amonge the F1 variants gives it the chance to move out of the shadow of the other 2, better, versions. Adding a C Early at best folders the F1C below it, making the C even LESS present in game, or at worst, adds another RP roadblock to the Mirage 2000 that most players wont use.
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To be honest, having an early F1C added or removing the Magic 2s from the aircraft is just as simple. France also has a large number of other aircraft that could be added to this bracket to complete it.
The other problem I see is that the CT is destined to move up to Br in the short to medium term, if the ECMs and other CM pods are added into the game, this aircraft will benefit enormously and will end up in 12.3 or higher, leaving no aircraft in 12.0
I don’t think that’s a good argument. The entire French tree is just there so that players don’t directly unlock the Rafale. Nobody plays the Mirage 2000 (to put it simply, based on StatShark’s monthly stats, I alone represented 5% of the games played in Mirage 2000C S5 a few month age), the only plane in the tree that really interests players is really the Rafale.
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You mean this butchery is mitigated by the one strike variant that will go up in the future, provided they develop the missing features, and the one premium version that is explicitly identical to make it so there isn’t disparate experience between tech tree players and premium players?
This could be covered by a myriad other options. Astoundingly, like an F1C early, which would introduce a smoother curve than just removing the weapons from the F1C that you want to remove. Weapons which are accurate, and make uptiers far more tolerable than if it were to be 11.7 without them. It would facilitate the difference in platforms you apparently desire, whilst not introducing disparity between the tech tree player and the premium player. Folders were put in place to facilitate things like this.
The C200 performs virtually identically because it is the same bloody plane to maintain parity between the tech tree players and the premium players. It is good to have this parity for the health of the game. This parity is not reason to degrade one or the other.
The F1C will generally only ever appeal to those fond of the aircraft, its history, or its design. A different loadout would not encourage it to be utilised further, and degrading it by removing historical features would disincentivise the use even further as it would struggle to compete in an uptier. The addition of the F1C early would facilitate those who would rather the early version the opportunity to use it, not degrade parity between tech tree and premium players, and further validate the usefulness of folders to encourage other similar systems being implemented in future.
Assuming even buddy lasing gets sorted, it would go up in BR. An F1C early would facilitate a more gradual slope in this eventuality than saying “Hey, if you want a 12.0, fork out an arm and a leg”.
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Yes absolutely, especially since if there are planes that can fill the gap between 11.0 and 12.0, the number of planes that can be added between 12.0 and 12.3 is much lower (technically we could add all the Mirage 2000 variants but it is not very diverse)
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Makes me curious how many I represented with the Mirage 2000D-RMV 😿
Probably a large part, the planes of this Br (2000 C S4, C S5, D R1 and D RMV are almost not played), everyone rushes to the top tier but does not take the time to play these planes which are (in my opinion) the most interesting of the tree
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Currently, as the game sits right now, we have 3 nearly identical aircraft all occupying the same BR, with the same playstyle, and the same primary loadout options.
Moving the currently ingame F1C down by removing the M2s grants a level of variety without the addition of another copy past airframe.
Yes, the CT might move up, Yes, not everyone can afford the C200, Yes this would make the C200 better than the tech tree C, but still worst than the current CT.
adding a C Early is a viable option, but, again, at best its foldered with the current C, making that airframe even more irrelevent, or at worst, the F1C earlys gets placed before, adding to the grind overall.
Keeping parity between tech tree and premium aircraft is not a priority for the company, sometimes it happens, other times the premiums are upgrades to the techtree variants. the F-4s is better than the J, the 21 Lazur-M is better than the SAU, the A-5C is better than the Q-5s.
We could have increased variety in the tree by moving the current F1C down, and later, if a gap does happen to exist add an F1E or M to take the place of the current F1C, which could add a more unique airframe to the tech tree instead of what an F1C Early would provide. This option gets the same intent of the F1C Early, without retaining the problem of the 1C/C200 being identical.
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Technically it is normal that the Mirage F1 C and the F1 C 200 are identical.
An early Mirage F1 C would bring more diversity than removing the Magic 2 from the current aircraft. Indeed, the idea is that the early version would not have the S530s either and would instead be put in a folder with the Mirage IIIs because they would be closer in terms of both Br and armament.
Regarding the addition of a “copy and paste” aircraft, unfortunately we already have all the possible French aircraft models (the only one we don’t have yet would be the Mirage IV), it is normal that the next aircraft that will be added are variants of those we already have
For the other variants, why add export versions when we don’t have all the French variants yet? (Besides, I just realized that adding an F1 CR could potentially fill the gap between the III E and the F1 C)
So if im understanding you correctly, you want to add another F1C to the game, making 4 copies of the same airframe in order to have 1 at a lower BR.
I personally would rather see 1 of the 3 (2 identical) airframes change, and then if a holw opens up, add a unique version for the F1 to fill it.
Neither solution is wrong, but I personally would like to limit the amount of direct copies of airframes (C and C200) in game, and as such believe that the F1C should have its Magic 2s removed to achieve this goal, while also opening the door for further F1 varients, French or Export. I doubt that we would get these if they would be the 5th version of the same airframe in a tree.
That’s it. The idea is to have an early F1C in 11.0 or 11.3, and the other 3 variants in 12.0 while waiting for possible new technologies/additions in the game (my bug report for the addition of PHIMAT was accepted for the aircraft, which would perhaps already raise some of the aircraft to Br depending on those to which they are added).
Limiting the number of identical airframes would mean no longer adding aircraft to the game for France above 10.0. Currently, we only have variants left to add (Moreover, the export F1s are copies of those already in the game with only changes to the armament, the only “original” variant that remains would be the MF2000).
I understand your desire to remove the Magic 2 but personally, not being able to freely play a plane that historically used it would annoy me (I know that for many the F1CT is identical but it will always remain the ground attack variant and that’s how I use it.)
Otherwise another problem I see is that bringing the Mirage F1 down to Br while leaving it with the Super 530s would make it particularly powerful, the latest changes have really made the radar and missile guidance good, which if put in 11.7 or 11.3 would make it too much of a threat
thanks for the pic but the second one are defitively magic 1 (they lack the slit on their back fins and got one painted line instead of the two you would find on the magic 2) and the first one are test one, so inert missiles. Looking back at the timelines between the conversion of CR, CT and the phasing out of the mirage F1C in profit of the mirage 2000 and the late introduction of the magic 2 in the life of the mirage F1C i m starting to doubt a mirage F1C pre C200 would have even used magic 2 in operation