That may be so, yet i already expressed my opinion regarding both BRs. Air br is too low, and Ground br should stay 12.0 or be leveled up to 12.3.
fair but @ARMA_MACIRE is arguing about it’s BR in GRB so why are you bringing up ARB? Again everyone knows the A10 is problematic in ARB. What we are arguing about is it’s BR in GRB. So either you are deflecting, or you have no points to defend your arguments
because GRB essentially also involved when it comes to strike jets. Both Su25T and Su25SM3 have 0.4 br difference, whereas A10C has 0.7 Br difference. So as I said, air br needs correction, and Ground br should stay 12.0 or be leveled up to 12.3. That is without even mentioning the 4 9Ms and guided weaponry. I pretty much explained my point of view already.
Just because you explained it, doesn’t mean it’s correct. I’m not saying my explanation is either, but I’m willing to defend it and make my claim
BR difference between Air and Ground is not justification. You judge aircraft’s BR by looking at it’s capabilities and the capabilities of other aircraft at it’s BR. When it comes to GRB, you mainly look at it’s CAS capabilities. Like I said in the beginning, there are much better aircraft at a lesser BR (SU24,SU25,AV8BNAc)
If you played the A10, you would know that because of it’s speed, majority of it’s weaponry is useless. The only ones that can be used efficiently is the mavericks and apkws. With that being said, the speed of the A10 reduces the effectiveness of the mavericks resulting it being deployed within the range of spaa. You don’t have this issue with the aircrafts I mentioned above
A10C is just as fast as A10A for that matter. And no, majority of its weaponry isnt useless. First of all you got air spawn in grb, and can climb easily. Yes it would take time, but its better than dying. Secondly video above demonstrates, that mavericks can still be used effectively.
And finally, SU24 comes with a freaking R60M. So you’re saying that speed costs that aircraft good missiles, HMD, thermals, and good amount of countermeasures for it to be at same br as a10c?
SU25BM at this BR also comes without thermals, only two TV rockets and two bombs.
And AV8B NA is also a US jet, which means gaijin’s golden child just like A10C, yet we dont discuss it here do we? At least it doesnt come with 4 9M’s and ability to carry AA missiles affect its ability to carry more AG weapons. It also lacks MAW, and HMD and unlike A10C, cant carry up to 6 IR mavericks, which at that br are main weapon to fight AA. That’s without even mentioning the lack of laser guided rockets etc.
A10C is the most overpowered jet at this br. You’d know it if you actually played against it.
Answer this question, are we talking about Air or Ground?
Seems like you don’t understand what BR is and have no idea how mavericks work. The A10A is at 10.7. The only threat to you is the Tunguska and the ASRAD, the rest are either Rolands or IR spaa systems which can easily be evaded. At this BR it is easy to dodge and launch mavericks at a higher altitude. The A10C doesn’t have that luxury
Like you said, the A10A and A10C have the same speed, so what does that mean? The effective range of the mavericks are the same between both models. But here is difference, you cannot fly high in a A10C in that BR because you’d get shot down easily. And again, if you’d played the A10C, you would know that majority of it’s weaponry is useless because you lack the speed to use them safely.
The video shown above is the best case scenario. the pantsir players did not know how to use their vehicle effectively. I’d recommend you watch Hunter’s video because his videos are an accurate representation of what the game would look like if there were competent pantsir players and not braindead ones. He even said that the BR (air and ground) might’ve been swapped.
I’m not denying it can be used effectively, but it is much much harder to do so when compared to their Russian counter parts which you seem to skip past.
Why are you talking about it’s SU24’s AAM and HMD when we are talking about it’s CAS capabilities. You seem to ignore what ground weaponry the SU24 can carry and guess what, all of which can be used outside of the any spaa system’s range. Flares don’t matter because spaa systems can’t lock onto you when you’re out of their range. And even if you are in range, you’ll still get shot down because IR spaa systems of IRCCM. Thermals don’t matter because if you are out of their range, you can spend all the time you’d like acquiring the targets.
Why are we talking about the SU25BM when that’s an even vehicle? I’m taking about the SU25T in which all of it’s weaponry have at least 10km range. And guess what, it’s at 11.3. The scariest spaa is the Type 81 which can easily be outranged.
Again with the anti aircraft capabilities, what’s up with that? Again, you seem to not understand how much speed can make a difference. You can use GBUs, JDAMS, and Mavericks much more effectively. You can only carry 6 mavericks if you sacrifice the TGP which is historically accurate. Laser guided rockets can only kill stationary light vehicles. It’s tracking range is extremely short so unless you’re oblivious, stay in one spot, and a light tank, it’s not good.
Also I can understand if we are talking about ARB which yes the A10C is extremely overpowered, but for ground? You gotta be seriously oblivious to see that Russia dominates CAS in GRB. This is just cope
Majority of the community understands that the A10C is over BR’d in GRB, you just don’t want actual competition at 11.3 which is hilarious.
look, what i’m saying is, is just for 0.7 br A10C gets shitton of weapons, thermals, MAW, HMD and easily one of the best IR missiles in the game, which are not only unflarable in some situations, but also are to be used against jets with no missiles(in air rb). So either take these missiles away, or increase its air br to 12.0-12.3 as well.
As for ground rb, A10A has to come close to the battlefield cause it doesnt have Litening pod. A10C does have this pod, and it increases it range drastically. You can easily stay 10-20km away and still get kills, as guy does in the video above, without even having to fly high. Oh and as for laser rockers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-cjt5mvT_Y
I was talking about these jets, because they have exact same br, yet they come with much less capabilities unlike A10C. I ignored the su24m weaponry because without thermals, its nearly impossible to find AA further than 10km range.
SU25BM, exact same br. Su25T or Su39 come with 0.4br higher, just because of vikhrs. Yet same as su24 they have no thermals, so cant possibly fight further than 10Km as well. Its changes with Su25SM3, not because of Kh38, but because of the thermals. It for sure would manage just fine with kh29T, without having to come closer than 10km. Because thermals actually worth 0.7 br and more.
And yes, I understand the value of speed, but I dont overestimate it.
This is from a Brit main that will likely never play either the Su-25 or A-10C. So consider this an outsiders perspective. But I do have experience in trying to play aircraft like the Harrier Gr7 at its currently insane BR and its really not fun
Then do the Su-25s move up as well?
Aircraft like the Su-39 have 2x R-73s (which are just as good as Aim-9Ms depending on the situation) and 2x R-60M. A Good RWR, IRCM, slightly better flight performance to the A-10. Way better survivability (ability to just tank damage), a decent number of CMs for the BR (and 16x Vikhrs which can be used in A2A combat, though very hard to do so). Whilst it does lack the MAWS and a thermal tpod, it does have a decent A2A & A2G radar. Within the context of air modes. Its only slightly behind the A-10C by all accounts. And yet its 11.7 and you are proposing the A-10C to be signficantly higher than it at 12.3.
Surely if its 12.3 then Su-39, Su-25T and Su-25SM3 should all be at least 12.0 in comparison. (Heck Su-25BM is 11.3 with 2x R-73s already, then should definetly go up as well.
(The Harrier Gr7 is currently 12.3 with the same AAMs, more CMs, MAWS (though buggy and wrong) and a significantly better flight performance and I personally consider it over BRed and should be more like 12.0 (especially in sim) the idea of something worse than the Harrier Gr7 being the same BR as it is kinda insane to me)
Yes 11.3 is probably too low for the A-10C in air modes. But all-in-all. Its not THAT much better than the Su-25s. I’d start with 11.7 and move it up if needed, but honestly. I doubt it will.
As for ground modes. 11.3 is probably too high for it with the state of the compression at top tier. I’d hate to encounter an A-10C in a full uptier in my 10.3 line-up but no more so than I would something like an Su-39 or Tornado IDS or Mirage 2000D. But an A-10C vs a Pantsir really stands no chance and whilst most nations couldnt deal with an A-10C. The same is true for most CAS jets at top tier.
What is needed, is a ground decompress, especially at top tier and adjust the BR of SPAA accordingly. THen the A-10C can sit higher but not at an unusable BR and then add better SPAA for all nations.
Give them 4 R73, hmd, maw and thermals, then you can move them too. Su-39 might move up in air battles, cause of radar, but the rest? lol. Vikhrs been nerfed the same patch these jets came out, yet it still costs same amount of battle points as TV or IR missiles, just because of proximity fuze. It can only be used against jets, if its a head on in sim battle. In other modes, game marks them, and people can easily evade. So no, Su-39 and Su-25T is way behind, and su-25bm is nowhere to be seen.
As for R73, even if these jets do receive two more R73 for some miracle, R73 is still a much worse missile compared to 9M. Yes they’re more agile, yet relatively easy to flare and without HMD, their effectiveness is drastically reduced. It’s like comparing aim120 and R77. Only a fool would think R77 is aim120’s counterpart.
The harrier doesnt get the same amount of weapons. British nation suffer at top tier, and I feel sorry for its players, I do not think its right to have Harrier at 12.3, but its not my decision to make.
Having said all that, I do get that pantsir is a powerfull AA, but you just gotta play smart and safe against any AA for that matter. I do play against pantsirs, and its not that big of a deal to deal with it, especially if you have IR or TV weaponry. Now that we have gps guided bombs, its should be another way to deal with it.
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HMD on the A-10C should not slave to the Aim-9s and is a bug
Has no impact on its BR placement for airmodes except maybe, just maybe in Sim as it can be used to help VID targets. But its fiddly to do in combat and a minimal buff. Id rather take the radar on the Su-39 for that purpose
Never had them., Maybe its time to consider R-27T for the Su-25s at 11.7 which it did have and could take in place of the R-60Ms.
Is in my opinion, not necessarily all that great. It does depend on the type of MAWS on the A-10C. Assuming its UV , this will just ping warnings constantly for everything going on around you, including teammates firing at enemies. Its good, but imo, not that much better than the IRCM that makes aircraft like the Su-39 and Su-25T 100% immune to rear aspect IR shots. That is incredibly annoying to deal with in some aircraft.
In my opinion… R-73s are better than Aim-9M in most respects except for when used on a distracted enemy that didnt see the launch aircraft coming or perhaps in rear-aspect shots. Aim-9Ms arent necessarily any better than R-73 just different. If I could, I would swap the Aim-9Ms out on something like the Gripen for R-73s or Magic IIs in a heartbeat and only keep the Aim-9ms on something like the Tornado F3 AOP.
Has 4x Aim-9Ms just like the A-10C and whilst it does have less A2G. A2G is a minimal consequence in ARB and the Gr7 can carry enough bombs for a base kill at the very least
(That being said. There is a bug report for the Harrier Gr7 to be able to carry 6x AGM-65s which is equal to the A-10Cs max and that is with a Tpod equipped on the Gr7, which is currently Gen 1 but a bug report is also in to make it gen 2)
At its core. I ask this question. If the A-10C had 4x Aim-9Ls what BR would it be at in air modes?
Probably 11.0? Maybe 11.3? Would it be any higher than the A-10A late at 10.7? (probably but not by much I reckon)
But 4x Aim-9Ms suddenly shoot it up a full BR bracket?
I suppose that is what has happened for the AV-8B(NA) (11.3) vs Harrier Gr7 (12.3) . But imo the Harrier Gr7 is WAAAYYYY over BRed for Air modes at hte moment (and US premiums are more often than not under BRed slightly, 11.3 is probably right for SB, but would be fine at 11.7 in RB) , and the Harrier Gr7 should be more like 12.0.
A-10C is definetly a lot worse than the Harrier Gr7 in pretty much every respect except sheer amount of GBUs it can carry. With that in mind, 12.0 on the A-10C is pushing it a bit. 11.7 definetly. But I just cant quite justify 12.0. At least certainly not week 1.
if A10C would get only 9Ls, then 11.3 or 11.0 would be a perfect place for it in air rb. Just because of MAW and HMD. 9Ms indeed worth a full Br bracket, the bare minimum would be 11.7, so it doesnt have to face jets without flares at the very least.
Besides that, I have nothing more to say. I’m really tired to repeat myself over and over. Air br is too low, and ground br should remain the same.
Again… for now… I would assume that will be removed
yeah, and half the players of the other nations were assuming that 11.3 is a temporary br thing at dev server. It wasnt.
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No one is disagreeing with you when it comes to it’s BR regarding ARB. Every sane player understands that having 9ms and hmd at 11.3 is over powered. But let me emphasize, everyone on this thread is talking about it’s CAS capabilities in GRB.
The thing with the A10A is that spotting isn’t hard, you can spot just fine from the 8-10km. this is because you have thermals (from the mavs) . Yes it’s hard identifying what you’re looking at however it is good for spotting. With the lightning pod, you can spot farther thus firing from greater distance however, due it’s speed, mavericks can only hit stationary targets once you get past 8km.
In the video you posted, the games he had was the best case scenario which is braindead pantsir players. Again, I suggest you watch Hunter’s video because not only he’s an extremely good player, the videos he has showcases what a competent pantsir player is. As far as the other video goes, he either used the rocket as “chaff” or used them in close quarters. Using them in close quarters only works if there are no spaa. Using them as chaff is pretty smart
Thermal optics does not give you greater range. It’s sole purpose is to acquire targets easier. this means that if you can’t see a target in non-thermal, then you cannot see a target in thermal mode. This is simply because of render distance. With the SU25T I can spot and fire targets 10+km. Maybe this is because of system hardware but I don’t know where you got that information from.
The KH29 and KH38 are similar in terms of basaltic and firepower however the biggest difference is it’s IR seeker and laser seeker. The MT has a greater tracking lock compared to the KH29T. this means you can lock on a moving target from a much greater distance. This also applies to the ML which can be launched 4x further than the KH29L. Thus you can fire outside the range of an SPAA.
I’m not discounting the fact that thermals are useful but you can still acquire and launch just by using non-thermal optics.
I suggest you play the A10 with the JDAMS or any GBUS if you want to understand why the majority of it’s weaponry cannot be used safely
Was he playing against bots at around 1-2 minutes? 15km out at that altitude should have resulted against certain death against any pantisr with 1.5 braincells.
It is lol. Most of the bombs you need to get within 7km to be able to hit even when you are at like 7-8km altitude and APKWS is also limited to like 7-10km at altitude.
Now getting within that range against a Pantsir, like I said before, should result in certain death. Also Mavs are ridiculously easy to shoot down in the Pantsir if the player has 2 braincells.
What’re you describing here sounds like a skill issue. If others can play it, proof of which I provided in two videos, then should you. Just gotta accept that you cant play it the way you play F16.
The first video you showed had SPAA that were less intelligent than the bots you can enable in custom battles. Like these pantsir players in the firat 3 minutes should actually be forced to play a SAM tutorial.
I haven’t watched the second video fully, but in the first few minutes they were litterally getting kills because there was no SPAA up.
Think it’s equally a skill issue on your part that you think this thing is as good as the SM3.
He pretty much was. No offense to MatDawg, he’s not an experienced CAS player, he just got extremely lucky with those games he had. Hunter is a more experienced in using CAS and he showcases what an actual game might look like. I
Even with that being said, what @The_Maestro fails to think about is the level of skill that is required to play the A10 at 12.0. If he honestly think that the level of skill required is the same for the A10 and SM3, either he is willfully ignorant, or he genuinely believes that because the only nation he has played in GRB is Russia.
Did you even check my profile lol.