Should EF2000s get AIM120C5?

Dev Server "Leviathans" General Discussion - Dev Server
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Arguably not. I made this point before, but the meta is the Rafale. Nothing else competes. All other 14.0’s are relatively close in performance according to statshark as long as you ignore the Rafale.

May 2025 14.0 jet stats:

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Comparing KDR/KPS deltas;

EFT (average): 1.03/0.82
F/A-18C (overall): 0.93/0.78
F-15E/I (average): 0.85/0.68

Rafale vs EFT FGR.4 (#1 vs #2 individual jets): 0.54/0.33 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs Su-30SM (#1 vs #2 avg jets): 0.57/0.29 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs EFT overall (#1 vs #3 avg jets): 0.76/0.46 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs F15E/I (#1 vs last place individual and avg jets): 0.94/0.60 in favor of Rafale

EFT FGR.4 vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place individual jets): 0.40/0.27 in favor of FGR.4
EFT overall vs F-15E/I (#3 vs last place avg jets): 0.18/0.14 in favor of the EFT
Su-30SM vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place avg jets): 0.37/0.31 in favor of the Su-30SM

As can be seen above, the difference in performance between all 14.0 jets is smaller than the difference in performance between the Rafale and the second best 14.0 jet.

With the decision to add the AIM-120C-5 to the EFT, it means all 14.0’s barring the Su-30SM and Rafale are getting the AIM-120C-5, which means that the actual relative performance difference at 14.0 will not change for anyone but the Rafale and Su-30SM. Throwing in the 13.7 jets number in as well, most of the 14.0 jets dont actually perform any better than the 13.7 ones in KDR/KPS either.

In theory, the addition of the AIM-120C-5 on almost all 14.0 jets is likely to try to have the 14.0 jets actually perform better than the 13.7 ones. Cuz as it stands (stats-wise at least) all 14.0 jets could technically be 13.7 (except the rafale, which should be 14.7 minimum).

The AIM-120C-5 has also been nerfed into the ground btw, so now its basicly just an AIM-120A+. Time to target from testing is basically the exact same as the AIM-120A currently in-game, but it trades a bit more energy for worse maneuverability.

I could be wrong on this last part cuz I haven’t tested this yet, but it could even be argued that the current AIM-120A is better simply due to the fact that the 120C-5 just offers a marginal improvement in what the 120A is already good at (long range energy) at the expense of making the massive flaw in the AIM-120A worse (even worse turning capability), with no other apparent advantage atm from what I can tell.

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2.46.0.25 Dev Server

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200

Noice.

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Dataminers are probably asleep rn, gotta wait for them to wake up or wait for gzabi’s github to update for more details on any missile changes

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Wouldnt the may stats indicate that the SU30 is slightly overperforming as well since its KDR/KPS is so close to the british Typhoon’s but with a much much higher playrate which usually tanks performance

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It’s noon (or around noon) in Europe right now.

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Probably, but I wouldnt consider any 14.0 jet “overperforming” other than the Rafale rn.

Personally, I think the most obvious option by a country mile is either nerfing the Rafale, with the most obvious choice in doing so being removal of 2 of its AAM’s and/or its HMD (would be historical to a French F3R). Another option would be punting it up to a new BR ceiling (14.7/15.0), which is something gaijin has done in the past with massively overperforming jets, but they never only did it for 1 jet, so that might not be an option atm.

I dont think its reasonable to nerf any of the other 14.0’s in air to air performance until the Rafales performance is reigned in in some way, and the AIM-120C-5 is super unlikely to be the answer if it keeps its current stats.

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Oh ok, Good afternoon Gszabi

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Overperforming was a bad word choice by me, i meant it more as in that the power of the SU30 seems much more accessible than the power of the EF and the F15 for some reason.
But yeah the Rafale-Domination is just bonkers but looking at how popular the Mirage F1C-200 is rn i dont think Gaijin will nerf it lol

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The Su-30SM has a very strong radar, alongside access to 12 BVR AAM’s (1.5x more than the F-15E running 8x AIM-120, 2x more than the F-15E and EFT running 6x AIM-120). This likely allows it to be more aggressive with its missiles as it can relatively reliably intercept incoming missiles, or can just shoot missiles at more targets, either increasing the Su-30SM’s survival chance in BVR combat, or chance to kill in BVR combat. The R-77-1 is also just a better missile than both the AIM-120A and current dev server AIM-120C-5. Its long range performance is similar, but its vastly superior in short range or HOBS use.

Its likely that the reason the Su-30SM performs well, particularly in the KPS metric is simply due to the fact it has more missiles to sling that are better, so on average it gets more kills every time it spawns as it has roughly 1.5/2.0x the chances to kill an enemy with a BVRAAM every spawn.

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208

You haven’t even played a Eurofighter. How can you make such a judgement?

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i did and agree with him.

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I have played it too
and i agree with him as well

Screenshot_20250603-203030_CapCut

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Huh?

Spoiler

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awesome guys next time we need a group of experts with 100 combined games in the EF we will let you know

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I must be blind then. Still, I very much disagree with your statement on the Captor M. It is blind and pretty much unable to hold a stable TWS lock when it does find a target. It’s performance is unacceptable, even when compared with “lesser” radars like the one on the F-16Cs and M2Ks

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I just flatly disagree. Find a target and then put it in narrow scan. It holds lock almost as well as if you hardlock a target, and gets the benefit of having the fastest TWS IOG+DL update time of any mech scan radar, which is what actually matters for guiding a missile with it.

It just flat out has a longer detection distance than the APG-63/70, and you can say “oh well it can’t actually detect anything with it” but in my experience I can pretty much get an RWR ping, point the narrow scan in that azimuth and find a target within 1-2 seconds of manually scanning in the vertical, all the way across EC maps. Plus you get the benefit of the PIRATE tracking through notches on 2/3rds of the typhoons and can’t even use the copout of the auto switch mechanic stopping you from shooting anymore.

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And how many of those 100 games are 2hr+ matches? Which probably equates to more actual playtime than your 600 5 minute hero matches.

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The assertion that “nothing else competes” hinges entirely on surface-level statistical readings — but these stats can be misleading, even if unintentionally so. They don’t fully reflect the raw mechanical performance of an airframe, because they’re influenced by a key confounding variable: the average player, who is, frankly, not great. And I include myself in that statement.

There are several well-known reasons why this data may be skewed or unrepresentative:

  • Skill Migration / Selection Bias

Not all planes are flown by the same kinds of players. Stronger planes tend to attract stronger pilots. The perceived meta creates a kind of skill gravity — experienced or competitive players disproportionately flock to aircraft believed to be superior, compounding any performance advantage into a statistically dominant position.

This phenomenon becomes apparent when looking at more context-rich stats.

Win Rate and Kill/Death Ratio

The most reasonable approximation of individual player impact in an otherwise noisy dataset is a combination of Win Rate (W/R) and Kill/Death Ratio (KDR). While still imperfect (since match outcomes involve 15 teammates), they tell us who’s consistently making a difference.

  • Rafale C:
    • KDR: 1.55
    • W/R: 63.5%
  • F-15E:
    • KDR: 0.97
    • W/R: 47.3%

The implications here are clear: the Rafale is being flown by more capable players. A KDR above 1.5 and a win rate over 60% are signs of pilots who survive, score, and win consistently. By contrast, the F-15E is underperforming even in the hands of its average userbase. That’s not necessarily because it’s a bad aircraft — it’s because its current userbase includes a disproportionate number of less experienced players.

Kills per Spawn and Death Rate

Kill/death ratio is helpful, but Kills per Spawn gives a better sense of raw efficiency — how much a pilot contributes each time they take off. Coupled with deaths per spawn, we get a better idea of survivability and skill.

  • Rafale:
    • K/S: 1.14
    • Deaths: 3.57M over 4.84M spawns → ~0.74 deaths per spawn
  • F-15E:
    • K/S: 0.78
    • Deaths: 7.78M over 9.6M spawns → ~0.81 deaths per spawn

Despite facing the same lethal, brutal environment, the Rafale scores more per life and dies less often — another clear indicator that its pilots are performing better. If it were only about the aircraft, we’d expect kill rates and death rates to be closer.

Silver Lions per Game

SL earnings per match aren’t perfect, but they’re still useful. They reflect kill count, survivability, time spent in-match, and mission results — all of which benefit from better player performance.

  • Rafale: 8431 SL/game
  • F-15E: 6816 SL/game

Again, we see a ~24% efficiency gap. Not definitive on its own, but consistent with every other signal.

If the Rafale were just statistically “meta-broken,” we’d expect these numbers to show consistent dominance regardless of who flies it. But what we actually see is that player quality and aircraft effectiveness are entangled — and the current stats reflect that.

I’m unfortunately a bit busy (I’m watching a lecture), so I’ll answer as I can.
But this is definitely not something to take at face-value.

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Only 16 or so because 75 of your 100 come from realistic as well. No one cares about your sub 20 game experience in sim