Should EF2000s get AIM120C5?

[_Renzo]

@An Pigeon

For dogfight EF2000 I think is / was better than rafale, for overall kit and use of said kit the su30 amd F15 put EF2000 in 4th place, its all extremely close.

Close range it’s easily second place. flight performance wise it might be slightly ahead of the Rafale (unsure of that myself), but the Rafale’s micas are just so good at this type of combat.

Long range I would also place the EFT either second or third best. The F-15E is clearly the best long range bvr plane, but the EFT has the same missiles and the only plane that can get close to the F-15E in bvr flight performance, with the added bonus that it can go into a notch way easier and quicker than the F-15E. The F/A-18C and Rafale are ass at long range bvr so it’s within top 3 already. 2nd or 3rd place depends on if you value flight performance (EFT) or radar and missile count (Su-30SM) more.

Don’t get me wrong, this is not meant to be an argument from me that the EFT shouldn’t get C-5s. If the F-15E gets them I don’t mind the EFT also getting them personally. I just hate it when people act like it’s one of the worst 14.0 while it’s easily among the best.

@H_ngma_

please explain how the EF2000 is a better plane in the game than the SU30 when the stats and the general kit of the planes tell a completely different story

All the Su-30SM has going for it are radar and missile count. Not saying that the Su-30SM is a bad aircraft.

[JustSid]

they should buff the r77-1 to make it realistic, give 120c to ef2k and the f15e, increase the map sizes, and everything should be fine, but its too much work for gaijin.

[JustSid]

It is, until the captor-e is added to the tranche 3/4 of the ef2k, the captor-m remains as the WORST radar at the 14.0 bracket.

[H_ngma]

@__Renzo__

All the Su-30SM has going for it are radar and missile count. Not saying that the Su-30SM is a bad aircraft.

“The SU30 is only good at the things that actually matter for top tier how can it be good?”

@__Renzo__

I just hate it when people act like it’s one of the worst 14.0 while it’s easily among the best.

There are not that many 14.0s, if the Rafale and the SU30 are better than its already mid and when the F15 performs better in BVR then its already on the lower end. Flight Performance is great but with the worst 14.0 radar and the lowest Fox3 count i think its very hard to argue that the EF2000 is the second best

[JustSid]

@H_ngma_

“The SU30 is only good at the things that actually matter for top tier how can it be good?”

Missiles arent that effective since the platform good compared to other platforms of the amraam carriers, realistically speaking, it only has a good radar and ofc the 12 missiles going for it

[_Renzo]

@H_ngma_

There are not that many 14.0s, if the Rafale and the SU30 are better than its already mid and when the F15 performs better in BVR then its already on the lower end. Flight Performance is great but with the worst 14.0 radar and the lowest Fox3 count i think its very hard to argue that the EF2000 is the second best

Except that the Su-30SM isn’t straight up better than the EFT. The EFT can hold it’s own against the Su-30SM in bvr and the EFT rinses the Su-30SM in close range.

[Shay]

For flight performance, the Typhoon was the best, but after the nerfs, it’s now the Rafale, with the Typhoon being a close second.

[JustSid]

the only way I see the su 30 winning is thro dogfights, where its missiles helps it

[Shay]

@JustSid

they should buff the r77-1 to make it realistic

Same with PL-12s and AAM-4s.

[An_Pigeon]

@__Renzo__

Close range it’s easily second place. flight performance wise it might be slightly ahead of the Rafale (unsure of that myself), but the Rafale’s micas are just so good at this type of combat.

Im talking sheer flight performance, especially for dogfighting, not missiles.

@__Renzo__

Long range I would also place the EFT either second or third best

It cant be when its radar barely has a lock, I cannot use it outwith the HMD mode for it anymore, it just isn’t worth making the KD worse.

@__Renzo__

but the EFT has the same missiles and the only plane that can get close to the F-15E in bvr flight performance,

has the same missiles, but a substantially worse radar, the F15E can lock, launch, and crank, before you even get a lock with TWS or even the standard Search PD.

@__Renzo__

the added bonus that it can go into a notch way easier and quicker than the F-15E. The F/A-18C and Rafale are ass at long range bvr so it’s within top 3 already. 2nd or 3rd place depends on if you value flight performance (EFT) or radar and missile count (Su-30SM) more.

okay ima say this one more time.

• it doesn’t matter if it can notch quicker, the EF2000 cannot respond if its radar does not work properly, its something i was in denial about when I got it.

I’ve had to play it as if its the old damn meta just to bring my KD to near positive.

• 2 the Aim120s are fatnastic missiles, when they can get a lock hell I couldn’t even guide one in manually the other day with the EF2000 radar locked on , it just broke lock n couldn’t find the target. and no one was notching, neither of us had changed position it just, lost lock.

@__Renzo__

The F/A-18C and Rafale are ass at long range bvr so it’s within top 3 already. 2nd or 3rd place depends on if you value flight performance (EFT) or radar and missile count (Su-30SM) more.

the rafale beats it in BRV as it can get a sustained TWS track far, far easier, even if MICAs are worse, the fact the EF2000 cant launch means its objectively not going to be able to respond.

@__Renzo__

I just hate it when people act like it’s one of the worst 14.0 while it’s easily among the best.

If it didnt get worse radar than some 13.7s then people wouldn’t be saying this.

[H_ngma]

Yeah better radar and double(!) the missile count and better IR missiles, sure it loses a 1v1 if you dont get a good R73 shot but missile count and radar are much more useful in the current meta

[H_ngma]

@__Renzo__

The EFT can hold it’s own against the Su-30SM in bvr

no it cant, the SU can literally shoot every single fox3 of the EF and have 6 left and all that with a radar than can actually track those missiles. Sure the EF can fire more lethal shots but very inconsistenly thanks to the radar

[_Renzo]

@An Pigeon

It cant be when its radar barely has a lock, I cannot use it outwith the HMD mode for it anymore, it just isn’t worth making the KD worse.

idk I have flown both the F-15E/I and FGR.4 and I have had similar experiences with both their radars. Maybe I just got unlucky though.

[Shay]

There are two main issues with the CAPTOR-M:
-TWS detects targets significantly less than it should (even those that the Blue Vixen easily picks up).
-Even when the target doesn’t notch or chaff and everything else is fine, the lock will sometimes randomly break.

It’s good when it works, sure, but the problem is that it doesn’t work more than it does.

[An_Pigeon]

@Shay-

-Even when the target doesn’t notch or chaff and everything else is fine, the lock will sometimes randomly break.

Its been a nightmare man tbh

[JustSid]

@Shay-

It’s good when it works, sure, but the problem is that it doesn’t work more than it does.

I have a higher chance of winning a lottery than the captor m working properly

[Shay]

The Typhoon is my favourite fighter, so I got through it and spaded it, but man, sometimes it was insane what the radar would do.

[MythicPi]

@darabyte

You’re just reinforcing the current meta (and worsening it for lower planes) instead of shaking them up.

Arguably not. I made this point before, but the meta is the Rafale. Nothing else competes. All other 14.0’s are relatively close in performance according to statshark as long as you ignore the Rafale.

May 2025 14.0 jet stats:

Comparing KDR/KPS deltas;

EFT (average): 1.03/0.82
F/A-18C (overall): 0.93/0.78
F-15E/I (average): 0.85/0.68

Rafale vs EFT FGR.4 (#1 vs #2 individual jets): 0.54/0.33 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs Su-30SM (#1 vs #2 avg jets): 0.57/0.29 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs EFT overall (#1 vs #3 avg jets): 0.76/0.46 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs F15E/I (#1 vs last place individual and avg jets): 0.94/0.60 in favor of Rafale

EFT FGR.4 vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place individual jets): 0.40/0.27 in favor of FGR.4
EFT overall vs F-15E/I (#3 vs last place avg jets): 0.18/0.14 in favor of the EFT
Su-30SM vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place avg jets): 0.37/0.31 in favor of the Su-30SM

As can be seen above, the difference in performance between all 14.0 jets is smaller than the difference in performance between the Rafale and the second best 14.0 jet.

With the decision to add the AIM-120C-5 to the EFT, it means all 14.0’s barring the Su-30SM and Rafale are getting the AIM-120C-5, which means that the actual relative performance difference at 14.0 will not change for anyone but the Rafale and Su-30SM. Throwing in the 13.7 jets number in as well, most of the 14.0 jets dont actually perform any better than the 13.7 ones in KDR/KPS either.

In theory, the addition of the AIM-120C-5 on almost all 14.0 jets is likely to try to have the 14.0 jets actually perform better than the 13.7 ones. Cuz as it stands (stats-wise at least) all 14.0 jets could technically be 13.7 (except the rafale, which should be 14.7 minimum).

The AIM-120C-5 has also been nerfed into the ground btw, so now its basicly just an AIM-120A+. Time to target from testing is basically the exact same as the AIM-120A currently in-game, but it trades a bit more energy for worse maneuverability.

I could be wrong on this last part cuz I haven’t tested this yet, but it could even be argued that the current AIM-120A is better simply due to the fact that the 120C-5 just offers a marginal improvement in what the 120A is already good at (long range energy) at the expense of making the massive flaw in the AIM-120A worse (even worse turning capability), with no other apparent advantage atm from what I can tell.

[LuaJa]

2.46.0.25 Dev Server

[Shay]

Noice.