Indeed, I am happy about their addition, but like all other FOX-3s other than AMRAAM/Phoenix, they are currently bugged and it is not good for their efficiency. Let us hope gaijin is quick to resolve the oscillation issues with PL-12, and similarly so for the other issues such as AAM-4s incorrect performance, R-Darter/Derby’s intense loft that often makes them miss, or the wobbles of R-77/MICA that limits them to the role of WVRAAMs (yes, they are shorter ranged than some of the others, but not as they are in game).
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I got r-77 for j-11a, and I found it really suffers. Most disadvantage can be made up, except the Radar.
I found it hard to attack enemy between 10-20km, your HMD is 10km, and your TWS or SRC is scaning slowly, before you get a lock or get in 10km to use HMD, the AIM-120 is on it’s way.
It got worse fin aoa than the aim120, in fact It pulls less even though the status card says otherwise.
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It doesn’t, R77 has huge drag, so it is quite useless at long ranges. PL12 is not good, but it is playable at this stage.
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Kind of J8F’s problem, it is no where close to level of F16 in terms of other capabilities, like how you have 0 ability against targets above 5km before getting PL12, so you are sitting with a good radar and no SARH. I would say if J8F gets PL11 and PL8B it will be fine, and the BR really does not make a difference.
I wasn’t able to find someone with R-77s to do the test with but I’ve recently came across a decently accurate test on all ARH missiles post developer server. This shows the range of all ARH missiles with the launches being from 30km, 33k ft altitude and at mach 1.48 (target flying hot).
This doesn’t take into account manoeuvring aircraft
Interesting how the PL-12 seems to compare more with the R77-1 rather than the R77
(longer ranges)
I’m somewhat confused with the amount of speed the Derby gains back… is that all the sustainer?
Derby climbs very very high and therefore it is coming back at a steeper angle, gaining speed from gravity
I would still expect a more uniform gain in speed.
It’s a feature on the missile that isn’t modelled very efficiently in war thunder, but imagine it as a spike when it comes to trajectory, in uses it’s speed to climb then uses speed gained in descent to maintain energy.
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Although it (derby) is quite light, which makes this loft pretty terrible since any maneuver by the enemy will exert a significant amount of drag, ruining the energy gained back. The missile would actually be more consistent with a less-steep loft. (This effect gets worse the lower altitude the opponent is due to increased air drag).
This test isn’t actually that useful, due to the height exceeding common combat conditions & assuming a cooperative enemy. Even if the enemy continued to fly forward, having them dive would result in several missiles (Derby/R-Darter, R-77, & MICA) showing notably poorer performance due to drag & low end mass.
All other missiles have only 5.0 or 7.5 degree loft, unlike on the DEV server or in March. Derby still retains its old massive loft angle
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I find it useless as a BVR missile because of the excessive loft, atm I mainly use it as a 15-1km launch and it’s consistent when used correctly but outside of that it’s kinda rough. Much more useful as a close range missile, even better since people don’t take it seriously and whine when it outpulls their amraam
The R-77-1 is far superior to the PL-12, it hits the target at the same time as the AIM-120C-5 and the PL-12 is the 3rd worst missile at closer ranges by the looks of it lol.
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I haven’t said that the PL-12 is superior… just that it looks more comparable to the dash 1 rather than the normal version. Ofc the PL-12 sacrifices short range to have more energy (as you can see in the graph) at the end compared to the R77s. By the 20-22th second the two missiles (R77-1 and PL-12) have the same energy state.
Thank god the R77-1 hits before the PL-12… it would be a joke if an upgraded version of the R77 wasn’t better. The R77 we got in game is still superior in close range compared to the PL-12 but as soon as the “distance” takes longer than 7 (roughly, judging by the graph) seconds the R77 has less energy compared to the PL-12 and will hit a couple of seconds later.
Judging by the graph the PL-12 is literally mid, not the worst and not the best. It is better used for longer ranges but once again, from personal experience, it is fine at lower ranges too, simply not as crazy as stuff like the MICAs for obvious reasons. At longer ranges it surpasses the MICA both in time and in energy, the NORMAL R77 both in time and in range, seems to have more energy and hits JUST 3 seconds later compared to the upgraded version of the R77. There are ofc negatives. It does in fact hit later compared to the Dash 1, it has much less energy compared to the AAM-4 and both of them hit at the same time, it severely lacks compared to the AIM-120 A and B in terms of energy and time to hit the target, not even gonna mention how it lacks behind the C5 but i’m hopeful we will get something else before the C5 is in game… otherwise it will be doomsday for anybody that DOESN’T have a C5 lol…
I would say it is still better compared to the Derby since it does lack in energy but the derby seems to hit much later… (ofc derby is better in closer ranges, i don’t feel like repeating myself over and over since i’ve stated this multiple times).
In general as i’ve said, it is mid. This doesn’t mean the missile is bad, or at least personally the missile feels good enough to do something in this meta, the problem is rather the platform it sits on.
By the 20-22th second the two missiles (R77-1 and PL-12) have the same energy state
The graph also shows that the R-77-1 makes it faster to the target so even though it loses speed it would be in front of the PL-12 if shown in-game. The PL-12 attempts to catch up but the R-77-1 already hits the target.
it would be a joke if an upgraded version of the R77 wasn’t better
The main difference between the R-77 and the R-77-1 is the streamlined body, there isn’t a huge jump as you claim it to be. The standard R-77 is a Ukrainian built one and the R-77-1 is a Russian built one, not really a “modernisation”.
Judging by the graph the PL-12 is literally mid, not the worst and not the best
People dog on the MICA-EM for having poor long range capabilities yet it hits the target at the same time as the PL-12. Unlike the PL-12 however the MICA-EM has excellent close range characteristics.
At longer ranges it surpasses the MICA both in time and in energy
The MICA-EM and the PL-12 hit the target at the same time, the only difference is that the PL-12 carries more energy into the target.
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As i’ve already told you but you seem to not understand, i didn’t say the PL-12 is better lol. And on a sidenote, i literally mentioned in my comment what you’ve just said, so you’re not adding anything or contradicting me.
And what would the point be? it is an upgrade, the PL-12 as any other missile could have these “little” upgrades that make it better, it is still an upgrade and should be treated as one.
About the Mica i literally missed the fact they hit at the same time, MB, just woke up so ill excuse myself. Still there are goods and bads about the missiles and even if it hits at the same time as the PL-12 it will have less energy to fight against moving targets.
It is literally about perspective and about context, somebody could claim the MICA is the best missile bc of the short range prowess but it is literally the worst in terms of energy in longer ranges.
As i’ve already told you but you seem to not understand, i didn’t say the PL-12 is better lol. And on a sidenote, i literally mentioned in my comment what you’ve just said, so you’re not adding anything or contradicting me
You just aren’t taking in the information well, the graph doesn’t show a visual representation of the missiles guiding into the target but if we extract the information available we can somewhat picture it.
The R-77-1 makes it to target before the PL-12 whilst having less energy, this means for the period it did have more energy it was ahead of the PL-12. You said that in the 20th second both the PL-12 and R-77-1 had similar energy states but this doesn’t matter, the thing which does matter is the distance travelled in that time period.
it is an upgrade, the PL-12 as any other missile could have these “little” upgrades that make it better, it is still an upgrade and should be treated as one
Not necessarily, the Type 59 is a licensed version of the T-54A yet people don’t consider it a upgrade. The R-77 isn’t used by Russia and the R-77-1 isn’t used by Ukraine.
It is literally about perspective and about context, somebody could claim the MICA is the best missile bc of the short range prowess but it is literally the worst in terms of energy in longer ranges
The MICA-EM has its strengths and weaknesses unlike the PL-12, the PL-12 isn’t as manoeuvrable as most ARH missiles, the PL-12 isn’t the best with maintaining kinetic energy and the PL-12 isn’t the best for closer ranges.
The time to target between the R-77-1 and the PL-12 is also the same as the PL-12 and R-77 lol
Ever heard of jack of all trades master of none? simply the missile is mid, not good not bad.