i linked a post to gszabi where i had exact same quesiton. both it and mica have no launch limits
You’re not force to used them on range, on closer ranges they will hit target faster than PL-12 and the target has less time to react so they are just better.
It won’t make that big difference the you less missiles and worst airframe.
“Some sources” are those sources reliable enough to believe them?
That message he posted is pretty recent, when did they update the R-77-1? My stance on the R-77-1 as a missile itself (excluding the launch platform) may change if this is true (which is probably is, Gzabi is reliable).
I don’t think the other values have changed, does the no launch limit apply for the R-77-1?
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if you check the missile spread sheet, both it and mica have the ±180 degrees/±90 degrees for launching, which makes both have no launch limits
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You do realise this is China we’re talking about? Those ‘some sources’ are quite literally the only sources out there lmao, everything else is kept INCREDIBLY close and any public information is information authorised for release.
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Thanks, do the same for the R-77 if you will please, does it also no longer have a launch limit?
r-77 has launch limit still so its worse than 771
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again:
The launch parameters for both the PL-12 and R-77 in the videos you’ve uploaded are totally different, one is launched at a lesser angle whilst the other is launched at a far more aggressive angle. That would also rarely actually happen in-game, the PL-12 is still better than the R-77 both offensively and defensively.
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yeah the r-77 was launched at a higher speed closer to its complete gimbal limit than the Pl-12
infact the Pl-12 had more favourable launch conditions yet it missed
sees the Pl-12 miss a shot the r-77 hits
logical conclusion:
Pl-12 is better
The PL-12 was forced to turn in two separate axis’s whilst the R-77 was given a well elevated trajectory, the bandit was gaining more distance in your R-77 launch (due to positioning) and the speed difference between both platforms (J-11B and MiG-29SMT) was negligible, that being a 60km/h difference.
That’s also not mentioning the fact that a environment such as the one you’ve shown is incredibly unrealistic, you’d rarely find yourself in that scenario in air realistic. When I said the PL-12 was better offensively and defensively, I meant both at the same time, my point still stands (excluding the R-77-1, that was changed very recently - China should get a later variant of the PL-12).
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it isnt especially not for RB since it pulls less Gs
simple as, if G pull wasnt important ppl wouldnt complain about the aim-120C-5 being worse than the 120b
sure and even then coming back to the original point is the su-27sm still better due to having more missiles and having the better IR missiles
a better comparison is this image, where the r-77 has a much tighter turning radius as can be seen . but pl-12 is still the third/fourth best missile in pull after r-77/771 and mica.
pl-12 can be launched in higher off bore than r-77 due to its gimbal limit, but is worse at those shots due to its lack of pull compared to r-77.
It has better initital acceleration than the r-77-1, but other than that its worse than that missile in every way due to lack of pull and range.
People complained about the C-5 because it sacrificed G-overload for range, and the range different was very niche - iirc the A/B had a faster time to target in some scenarios as well. The PL-12 and R-77 on the other hand are two entirely different missiles (C-5 and A/B are just different variants) with different pros and cons.
Missile turn radius is important but time to target and greater off-bore capabilities is more significant, being able to go from defensive then offensive, and back to defensive is a great attribute any fighter in air realistic can have.
This image is a great example, almost in the notch and being able to fire my missile regardless
I already agreed that the R-77-1 and R-77 turned more aggressively than the PL-12 but that’s only 30% of the picture, being able to fire a missile at an extreme angle without being restricted by maximum angle of launch is a extremely important pro.
But I do concede, ever since the R-77-1 lost its maximum launch angle, it overall is a better missile than the PL-12, with the PL-12 only having one advantage (that being short to medium range acceleration, important but not game changing) - the MICA-EM still remains insanely good, French players eating good.
Full video, I kill the guy but couldn’t fit it in the entire clip
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yeah that’s basically what i was saying here
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I do believe later batches of the PL-12 would remedy the severe difference in performance between itself and the R-77-1 in range and other niche aspects, the PL-12A would be like a side grade to the R-77-1 iirc, greater range and acceleration but inferior when it comes to high off-bore capabilities and overall G-overload.
I wonder how the J-15 would perform in-game, with its limited countermeasure count (same as the SU-33) but more overall missiles (two extra pylons like the 33).
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have you flown with r-77/rvv ae? I do think the difference in pull is definitely noticeable over the pl-12, albeit doesn’t come into play in most shots
I’ve used the RVV-AE before but not the R-77-1, I’ve always liked how far you can pull the PL-12 to its gimbal limit before being unable to fire, it makes jousting at close to medium range incredibly easy. In combination with the excellent 1493 radar, it makes the J-11B easily my most favourite Flanker.
I’ve also thoroughly used the RVV-AE (R-77) and have relatively little complaints other than the limited range, I just find the PL-12 more usable for air realistic (especially defensively) especially since it has a faster time to target, great manoeuvrability and a incredibly high gimbal limit.
Now knowing that the R-77-1 isn’t restricted by maximum launch angle, I’d probably enjoy using it as well, only issue is that its only found on the SU-30SM, an absolute boat of a vehicle. It’d probably be tied for the best air to air missile in my book alongside the MICA-EM.
The best single top tier aircraft probably still remains the Rafale and by a large margin, skill ceiling for the vehicle is insanely high
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