Interesting read. If, what it seems, Gaijin officially admitted that naval is dead, why not give players more RP for killing bots?
At least some few players will grind and use the assets Gaijin created. Otherwise, all this hard work of creating naval vessels (and it is hard, they are gorgeous) will be admired in garage only.
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It’s just sad that, right after admitting that it’s dead, they DOUBLE DOWN in one of the reasons why it’s dead; horribly low RP rewards.
The incredibly slow research progress is one of the main reasons why people don’t play Naval. It’s even the main reason why I, an enthusiast who has spent lots of time, effort and regrettably money on it, also stopped, too.
I’m just not feeling like spending 25 minutes on an Ace match only to get <1% of the RP required for a single ship.
It takes 3-4 months to power-grind an Air/Ground tree with Premium Account and Premium Vehicles, and it already feels like a lot given the investments- but it takes even longer, 6-7 months, to power-grind a Naval tree… and now that teams are mostly comprised of virtually reward-less bots, it will take EVEN longer.
All Gaijin has to do is increase RP gains across the board in Naval and to make bots provide as much RP as players, at least for as long as they comprise 2/3rds of the teams. That would make me and hundreds of players come back. Yet it seems they would rather see the game mode die than just fixing its biggest issue, which is excessively slow and long research progress.
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Even RP gain from player kills are low as well. The main source of RP income is your playtime.
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Yep, that’s why I said; first, increase rewards per kills- and then, make bot rewards equal to said increased player rewards.
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That would really help out coastal as coastal vessels do not last long enough.
But on another thought with how things are with kills getting taken away would it not be better to make Damage dealt the secondary RP income? Unless they fix it of course, either they could implement a similar mechanic to Air’s severe damage mechanic or they could make Kills and Assist give the same rewards.
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there is a number of issues that should be fixed, not only the RP gain.
- decrease of target acq. time (aracde) which was a giant nerfe to coastals
- decompression of BR (esp. coastals)
- decreasing the KI AA efficiency esp. at large distances…
- kill assist issue (as already mentioned)
- unbalanced matchmaking (e.g. giving only one team top-BR coastals, own team has only top-BR destr.)
(near hit bomb issue seems to be fixed with one of last patches)
… to be continued…
airRB ive had matches in 10.7 aircraft (tailisman, non premium) last the full time and gotten 6 kills. 40000RP
Yesterday i was in the Z-19E (premium) full match (25 mins) in groundRB playing CAP (6 air kills) 17000RP
Not played naval but if the rewards are that abysmal im not shocked why people leave it out
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I don’t think that’s the case for GRB. In ARB however you can gain massive RP by just doing zomber runs with minimal PvP engagement.
12 kills + nuke, ~10 minutes game and not even 10k RP.
10 kills, ~20 minutes game and 13k RP.
12 kills, ~12 minutes game and 11k RP.
13 kills, 25 minutes game and 18k RP.
So the thing to remember here is the rewards formula has both the awards that are reflected through score, and also one-time SL rewards for kills (and assists).
So Stona is right that in terms of SCORE and score-based endgame rewards, the effect of having more bots is fairly small. A destroyer has 440 base points of score from damage to give away, and a kill score bonus of 30 (10 for a bot) and assists. So score per game will likely stay close to what it was before these changes. Because RP is more tightly correlated with score, it won’t see much of a change either.
As some have mentioned, there are countervailing effects we can’t measure by having more ships closer to your BR now, larger (and possibly shorter) matches and shorter queue times, which I would guess will basically fully offset score and RP effects on a per-hour basis.
The exception is SL, which has those “pop up” bonuses you see on screen and are also in the end game record. Those amount to 25-40% of your total SL earnings on a game, so reducing them by 70% for the bots you kill should produce a notable reduction in SL from naval on both a per-game and per hour basis.
Bottom line is if you’re a premium player with insurance just grinding or doing naval vehicle events, you likely won’t notice this. If you’re using naval to farm SL, on the other hand, this will be a setback.
I would actually argue making bots and players pay the same could cause its own problems and needs to be fully considered. There would be a temptation in certain games (which we’ve seen in low-BR RB, often 80% bots already) for the players on both sides to just ignore each other and farm the bots if the payout is going to be the same for less effort.
The other issue here is, when one side loses all its human players, the game auto-ends, so we could see naval game length on average decrease here, as well. You need a human on the other side to stay in, even if there’s only one starting on each side, if you’re going to max score. It would actually make a lot of sense in some games for the two sides to communicate and agree to avoid killing each other to prevent a premature game end.
Before, smart play actually killed off humans first, because they paid more, were more dangerous, and you were more likely to get the win bonus, so even if it led to a short game the win bonus compensated. All the incentives ran in the same direction. Now… Not always.
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This is an interesting point I hadn’t thought of!
Before, all AIs were Trentons, Chapyevs and other 6.0, Rank IV-V Cruisers, Destroyers and lower Tier PT boats.
Therefore, suboptimal for Rank VI Battleship
Maybe now that the bots are on high rank Battleships (as far as I know) rewards may be better…?
I will play a match on my Talisman Mutsu and see how rewards are! Hopefully I will be proven wrong when I recalled rewards being low; maybe they improved now after all!
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I put the results from a 25 minute match punching AI up some 12’ish hours ago.
It was also extremely boring when an entire fleet of AI is sailing past while ignoring you.
No thinking needed, no tactics, punch each one in the magazine area until they boom and move on to the next while they do nothing.
There’s zero enjoyment in fighting them and since they give the same rewards and score as cruiser bots and take longer to sink thats less rewards.
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Oh, nevermind then, just as I suspected, then. Thanks for the info! I’ll skip the testing.
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So how long is the timer limit on naval now because I am still waiting like over 5 minutes and I am yet to be put into a match.
have you “join in progress enabled”?
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So if you’ll find yourself in ‘one human per team’ match, you need to communicate with other player to focus on bot killing.
And pray, no one joins during the match.
Gaijin, for whatevers sake, just do the Naval PvE with proper rewards.
Going NA/EU in RB I’ve never had a game over six min wait before they put you in an all bot game. But that could have changed, and NA has been unplayable lately so I unchecked it
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im confused, are we talking about the range finder? or the crew updating the range?
The crew updating the range.
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No but my understanding of the change above is that to reduce wait times which were getting ridiculously long they would after some time, auto throw you into a new match with bots. So what is the time limit for that as I think waiting more than 5 minutes to join a match is still far too long.
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They were doing that already at 6 min in RB, at least at the BRs I play. I think the change is better interpreted as enforcing 16v16 (more bots) and increasing the bot BRs (better bots).
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