Do you somehow not understand what BR compression means?
If the F-16s get buffed and stay at the same BR because they underperform in uptiers the compression gets worse.
If the F-16s get down-BR’d because they underperform in uptiers the compression also gets worse.
If the ARH planes get up-BR’d to stop them from fighting planes that cannot even engage in combat with them the compression gets better.
In relation to the planes at the BRs below 13.0 the F-16s absolutely deserve the 13.0 BR and they shouldn’t go down or get buffed unless they get a higher BR.
Buffing the F-16s does NOTHING to help them compete in uptiers whatsoever as they still get outranged, the buffs only serve to make them stomp in downtiers.
wait so a CM pod on one side and a gun pod on the other? that would indeed make that a more viable choice. huh interesting, didnt knew gaijin didnt restrict that.
IMO to satisfy F-16s and other machines sitting in 13.0 they could put MIG-23 and other similar machines that got placed in 11.7 to 12.0, in order to kinda balance the ratio of downtiers and uptiers that 13.0 experiences. I know this may spark controversy, but it’s still funny to me how planes like F-4S, Mirage F1C-200 and F-4J(UK) Phantom II got put into 12.0, while MiG 23ML variants sits on 11.7 and “early” MiG 27s on 12.7 when F16As sit on 13.0 - 13.3
your suggestion would just shift the compression issue around a bit again though.
the sensible thing to do is to further increase the max BR to 14.7/15.0 really, to separate not only the ARH-capable aircraft from those without ARH(or comparable fighting performance) but to also have the most modern aircraft with very good flight performance but without ARH capability be separated from those that now sit around the 12.0 BR range, so aircraft with 1960’s/1970’s tech.
that’s nice but you need to move up the A10 and the SU 25, at 10.3 with all aspect missiles they still face 9.3 planes with no flares. And don’t give us the BS that they needs those missiles to defend themself. they clap absolutly everything when they goes down br
I know, but as mentioned yesterday, the sceptic tank got already moved up to 12.0 - 13.3. The option i respresented would serve to kinda bring back the status quo of matchups before the BR changes until more sensible BR change would be brought to us
No. Just increase the max BR further and/or add seperate matchmaking for ARH planes.
All these suggestions to make the F-16s more competitive just end up making it worse for the planes below the F-16s while not adressing the actual problem.
You cannot fix the non-ARH vs ARH problem by buffing or down-BR-ing the non-ARH planes.
We all yearn for somewhat balanced matches in our beloved jets, but for now it’s either suffer or be the one spreading that suffering to others with current balancing takes that we receive.
All British F-4 Phantoms should go down to 11.7 and not just the F-4J (UK), all three of them use the obsolete Skyflash which was decent back in the days but not in 2024 and they all three lack both HMS and anything similar to agile eagle slats.
The only thing the FG.1 and FGR.2 have over other Phantoms is speed but this is nullified by medium range SARH missiles which easily out speed most aircraft and this isn’t even taking into account F-16s or MiG-29s.
A way to levy this issue could also be by giving both the FG.1 and FGR.2 the AIM-9L and keeping them at 12.0 whilst moving only the F-4J (UK) down a BR.
but i also fear gaijin might then just leave it at that, not further takling the issue for months or even years, so not fully committing to improving the situation, like they often do with these kind of changes.
They should not be down tiered anymore as they are still deadly in head on WVR engagements with PD radar and decent missiles. Instead, 12.0+ planes should be decompressed further.
Absolutely not, the MiG-23MLD managed to stay down at 11.7 whilst having better IR missiles, better SARH missiles and a better FM. The F-4S at least has a HMS, leading edge slats and the AIM-7F but the UK Phantoms have neither.
If the UK Phantoms receive the AIM-9L however then I wouldn’t be against them staying at 12.0.
decent missiles
Are we looking at the same vehicles? What is decent about the UK Phantoms missiles, sure the AIM-9G has long range but it can barely pull for 12.0 and is rear aspect only.
You should also note that Gaijin also considers the earning potential of a plane while deciding its BR. All phantoms in the game right now have high earning potential by base bombing (up to 3 bases by a single phantom) without sacrificing the air-air loadout. This was explained in a previous devblog as a reason why tornado’s BR won’t be lowered.
I believe this was the reason why F-4C was bought up to 10.7.
Mig-23 doesn’t have this flexibility. It can only do air to air. 2x R-24R is only good when you get a decent radar lock these days (F-4J UK has much better radar and 4 SARH missiles which are very potent in WVR headons). 2x R-24T is good and the 4x R-60M is meh seeing how flare hungry they are.
TLDR; Mig-23 being lower than Phantoms with PD radar is justified because of high earning potential of the phantoms with both air and ground attack options without sacrificing the other.
The F-4J (UK) is the worst naval Phantom in-game, it inherits the poor engine which can be found on the F-4S whilst having non of the benefits of the F-4S upgrade program. It once had a HMS but that was removed, it lacks the AIM-7F and operates the Skyflash which is the main drawback of the British Phantoms and keeps the low flare count of 60 like the F-4J and F-4S.
It is by all means inferior to the MiG-23ML/MLD but sits at a higher BR than both. Moving it down to 11.7 alongside the Floggers wont change anything besides making the aircraft slightly more bearable and even then it wouldn’t be competitive.
It is not inferior to the MiG-23ML/MLD/MLA. The F-4S would definitely be a BR step above the F-4J and the Spey Phantoms if the BRs were decompressed enough, but they aren’t.
There is no way the F-4J(UK) should have the same BR as the Tornado GR.1/IDS (1995)/IDS ASSTA1 and Su-25T/39.
You should also note that Gaijin also considers the earning potential of a plane while deciding its BR. All phantoms in the game right now have high earning potential by base bombing
That’s a flawed method which has been challenged before and should be again, the F-4J (UK) won’t be the first to base and with the reduction of multipathing makes this significantly harder without having to divert course temporarily.
Gaijin has listened to player input when it comes to BRs and I’m sure the F-4C will eventually go down.
Mig-23 being lower than Phantoms with PD radar is justified because of high earning potential of the phantoms with both air and ground attack options without sacrificing the other
SARH missiles play a major role at these battle ratings and having a lacklustre one can make or break. The Skyflash is a horrid missile which fails to kill targets from 20kms in most situations and the R-24R is simply much better.
