Server Update 16.07.2024

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411

Mig-21 doesn’t have to fly with a full tank, unlike F-4C. There is no 1 v 1 in ARB. If you started your “sustained turn” then you will be a practice target for anyone with missile.
F-4C is a flying brick.

Ej Kai is one of the worst phantoms. Flying brick literally. No agile eagle, no HMD, not enough engine thrust.

412

Well, the EJ Kai has a way better radar, better IR missiles and more Countermeasures than the current 12.0 Phantoms.
The fact that it is less maneuverable than the F-4E, F, S and Kurnass doesn’t really matter as it serves the same purpose as the F-4J in air to air combat: being a missile bus.
The lack of a HMD is pretty much a nothing burger.

1 Like
413

Mig-29g see f4s/juk now. Funny. Buy prem package and suck r-73

414

Gaijin must consider having 2 30mm Defas, the Litening II pod and different ground attack loadout options ontop of the Piranhas to be a much bigger upgrade than they really are

But then again, the Sea Harrier FRS.1 late got 2 BR steps just for having 2 additional AIM-9Ls over the early variant as well

1 Like
415

Unfortunately, I have already bought either all the planes of the nation, or premium plane and I’m just too lazy to grind with them.

Mig-29 requires a skilled pilot, uFo-16 doesn’t

416

You can have countermeasure pod and a gun pod.

So it is actually quite nice.

417

And it incredibly bad it.
HMD allows the F-4j to engage targets at any direction , including from high altitude (multi path will not help your enemy)

418

Sorry but I don’t agree with this, tornados cannot defend themselves in a dogfight. They are much too heavy in movement and only have two missiles which are not terribly effective… they are more than easy targets compared to the others. To say otherwise would be to lie

419

You aren’t supposed to engage in dogfights with the Tornados to begin with.
The Tornado is built to be an interceptor and ground attacker. If you try to use it like fighter and engage in dog/turnfights of course you are gonna have a bad time.
For the IDS and GR.1 you are supposed to rush to your target, deliver your payload and retreat. The AIM-9Ls are purely for self-defense in a head-on or against enemies that happen to fly in front of you.
Since they have their seperate chaff and flare counts they actually have more than enough countermeasures as well.
Last, but not least, with the BRs just increased by a single step they actually end up meeting less threatening planes than they were before.

1 Like
421

Actually sparrow df produces energy the fastest of all sparrows but it’s engine last for half the time, so it’s good at dog fights (like the name suggest) but at longer range fights is bad

422

No more Air assaults for top Tier jets? so disappointed…

1 Like
423

The f20a has gone from being pretty damned good to dog crap through its FM nerf and game updates since it’s release.
It needs to have 9M not 9L at the br it’s been put at or move it back to 12.0 imo

The f1c-200 is fine imo, it’s very capable and has the FM and loadouts for where it’s at.

The j35xs has to be one of the, if not THE, most ridiculous BR change of this update

2 Likes
424

The F-20 should not move down to 12.0. Even with the nerfed FM it still deserves to be treated like most of the other planes at that BR range and keep the 0.7 BR increase

425

braindead update. why is the f16 higher than the f14 and gripen when it doesn’t get missiles it should be able to carry

426

F-15A 13.0 :

-4x AIM-9M + 4x AIM-7M
-17.020kgf of thrust
-T/W 20min fuel : 1.10

Su-27 13.3 :

-4x R-73 + 6x R-27ER
-HMS
-23.312kgf of thrust
-T/W 20min fuel : 1.13

F-16A (belgian) 13.3 :

-6x AIM-9M
-8.985kgf of thrust
-T/W 20min fuel : 0.90

What’s wrong here?

Edit :

Mig-29SMT 13.3 :

-6x R-77 (ARH/50g)
-HMS
-13.632kgf
-T/W 20min : 0.97

And so on…

1 Like
427

Only the Belgian F-16A is higher than the Gripen and the F-14 has no reason to be on the same BR as the F-16s

428

A follow up post after spending ~50 games in different BR across 9.0 to 12.0
I am French main and it might be biased somewhat, please point it out if I am doing so.
Some general message:
The new BR ladder is generally good despite all the drawbacks and I would like to thank you for this unscheduled change, there is however many things I think we could all learn from this, also as these comments suggested, a ton of change that was more or less not very popular, here’s my take.

  • Maybe you guys should’ve been waiting for a second round of feedback, one round of adjustment is certainly not sufficient for this kind of delicate move where BR is changed in massive scale. I personally do not mind to wait for another week or so, just so you guys can bring some changes that will be more beneficial for the game. Things like the J7E controversy could’ve been easily prevented if you guys waited for another round of feedback.
  • I have a clear feeling that the current BR is still very cramped as it is. A very good example will be F5 family. You guys clearly noticed that F5C is overperforming at its BR and I would agree to move it up by an additional tier, but this created problem such that F5E have to be moved to 11.3 and FCU at 11.7. The latter two especially the FCU will not be competitive at all at that certain BR, so you have this awkward situation. This in my point of view, is a very nice indication that the current BR is still compressed.
  • BR above original 11.3 (12.0 now) is essentially intact. I see where you guys are going with this and maybe, just maybe, we don’t have sufficient amount of vehicle to further decompress what’s above 12.0. But as it currently is, the top tier is nohere from enjoyable to say the least. A ton of problems from BR compression exist.

Now details.
Particular aircrafts that could possibly use some change from 10.0 to 12.0

  • F8U is a particularly OP aircraft, noted I don’t mean to exaggerate it when I am saying OP. This plane has very good agility that coud potentially outmatch F5C in the right hand, and will certainly beat anyone that’s not an F5 in its BR range. It is also fast, although not very much by the top speed it could reliably stay above mach 1.0 due to its powerful engine. In the same time, it has access to Aim9D which I would categorize that as an “once you are fired upon in the right window you will certainly die without CM” missile, and certainly better than the Aim9E which F4C and F5C carry. It is top notch in every perspective and I would personably suggest to move it up, given it owns 60 CM (countermeasures) it should do perfectly fine as it is.
    Suggested BR: From 10.0 to 10.3 - 10.7
  • F8E can use some change as well. This thing historically has been the sole OP aircraft in around this BR range. Capable of dogfighting and winning F5E due to its incredible engine and airframe, plus the addition of Aim9C (Another undodgable missile but a radar one), you’d surely have to consider if 10.7 is legitimate for it, especially when F5s are moved above 11.0.
    Suggested BR: From 10.7 to ~11.0
  • F4C I get that you guys were trying to move this thing up because it was too good at base bombing, but just because it is better than F105 does not means that it has to suffer. 10.7 will render this plane unplayable for air to air purpose due to its unreliable missile, mediocre agility and the lack of CM of course. I would suggest to move F105 down to 10.0 as well but this to me and to a lot of other players, are the priority.
    Suggested BR: From 10.7 to ~10.3
  • F8E(FN) Deserve to be mentioned too. It’s basically a F8E with no RWR and CM, but has two Magic 1 as compensation. It is currently at 10.0 and will surely creat problem once people notice this aircraft. I would personally suggest to move up this kind of high-energy and high-agility aircraft with undodgable AAM. However, due to the fact that it does not have CM, a slight lift will be sufficient.
    Suggested BR: From 10.0 to ~10.3
  • Mirage 3C has the same logic implies. This aircraft owns 2 magic plus one R530 which is also a very usable missile, although not undodgable in its BR. Chassis is arguably worse than the F8E, but mirage does have better gun and Radar missile as compensation. Although it does not have CM, it will probably be frustrating to fight this jet with F104A or Mig19 alike.
    Suggested BR: From 10.0 to ~10.3
  • Mirage 5F, and Israeli variant of Mirage 3 and 5 applies as well.
  • J7E is going to create another mayhem if not adjusted. In case you guys havn’t realized, this thing is not a typical mig 21 but a new version with modified aero that meets 21st century standard. In a dogfight this thing come close to F16A or Mirage 2000. Plus the addition of very good RWR (That shows target type and reliable warning) this is will certainly make up a good fight in WVR even with Mig29 or F16A. The missiles are not that bad either, PL5B is slightly better than Magic 1 in its parameters, and J7E get 4 of them. The only drawback is probably that 30mm gun with only 60 bullets.
    Suggested BR: From 11.0 to 11.3 - 11.7
  • J8B Similar to the J7E, this thing also has some of the best chassis. It is worse in a dogfight but still outmatch almost everyone in this BR, it produces a ton of energy that makes it literally as fast as the F15. It however does lack a nice RWR being its biggest drawback. With 2 Aspide + 4 PL5B loadout, considering we lack planes in 11.7, I would personally suggest to move up this plane being one of the best in 11.3.
    Suggested BR: From 11.3 to 11.3 - 11.7
  • J35XS is ridiculous at this current BR. I hope it is not greed that you are preparing something else for Sweden … and I’ll end the topic here. Basically this thing lacks RWR and carries worse missile than J7E (aim9P basically), chassis is good but not as competitive as J7E or J8B. Even as a dogfight-centric aircraft, it does not deserve 11.3 for its dogfight capability, not to mention it got this horrible avionics.
    Suggested BR: From 11.3 to 11.0
  • F104S-ASA is a problem that should be addressed even before the patch. The speed advantage of F104 at this BR is getting less significant and being an F104 is no longer a perk at 12.0. A direct competitor of this aircraft is tornado F3/ADV, which the latter is better in every single perspective, only lacking speed compare with it, by a small margin. F104S can carry only 4 Aim9L or you could change 2 of them to Aspide sacrificing your gun, This is lackluster to begin with. It also has horrible Radar and RWR with a 12.0 standard. Simply, its perk does not back this BR enough, and the drawbacks are too painful to stand. Making it 11.7 will thus be a nice choice, also considering that we lack 11.7 jets at the moment.
    Suggested BR: From 12.0 to 11.7
  • F4J (UK) is clearly inferior at its current BR. It pretty much had the worst of every phantom, Skyflash vs SparrowF compare to F4S, or J79 engine vs RR engine compare with Phantom FG. It does not even have the maneuverability kits on the F4E, given its situation I would suggest it to move down to fill the gap of 11.7.
    Suggested BR: From 12.0 to 11.7
  • Mirage 2000D is the another one of my major concern. It is indeed very powerfull being a Mirage 2000, but the limitation on its arsenal means it could only do certain things. A direct competitor is the Kfir C7 which has roughly equal power on missiles (4 Python3 vs 2 Magic2) and slightly worse chassis (Worse in lower speed range) comfortably sitting at 12.0. Mirage 2000D might have radar but it’s not very relevent when it does not carry medium range missile. To add it on top, both mirage 2000C is at 12.3 which make the 2000D even more ridiculous, thus I personally suggest to move it down. Maybe not for SB, but at least RB.
    Suggested BR: From 12.3 to 12.0
  • Kurnass 2000 can go down as well. I want to highlight that python 3 is not exactly that much better than the Aim9L, and 6 python does not grant it a spot in 12.3. It’s basically an F4 that would lose every single dogfight at its BR at this point, python 3 is not going to save it from hell. It has a direct competitor of F4EJ Kai, which latter has Aim7F but not python3, everything else are the same period. After MP change this makes a huge difference and plane like this with not-so-good chassis and no MRAAM should not be given this high of BR.
    Suggested BR: From 12.3 to 12.0

Aircrafts that are higher than 12.0, and unresolved compression
As I said in the intro, planes above 12.0 is essentially unchanged aside from the F16 family. Sorry for using the word unchanged but to be honest without further decompression it is just gonna be a hot pot of brewing mess all over, there are too much problem to talk about and it really forced me off the top tier right now.

  • Within the same tier, there are huge difference in performance. Good example be F4ICE vs Mig29SMT, F15C vs Baz M, Harrier FA2 vs Harrier Plus, or Su27SM vs J11A. If with no further decompression, it will render some aircraft worthless due to competitor on the same tier.
  • Aircrafts are not even comparable and are deemed to lose, with just one BR difference. Such as F4ICE vs F15C, will it be fair sir? This in my opinion should not even be a thing for 1.0 BR difference. If without further decompression, it will make some aircrafts suffering to play, even if they are precisely placed in the BR ladder.
  • This compression will be pressing down certain aircraft, harming the BR below. I’ve seen a lot of people calling for reducing BR for the F16s. They called it for a reason but we all know they have been so toxic for everything else below them. This is a result of the fact that they can’t fight things above them either, when your F16 ADF are merely 0.7 below F16C. If without further decompression, we are risking to see another F104A.
  • Now that some player are used to the mindset of F16 at the same tier of Mig29, it will be hard for them to accept the fact that F16 had some incredible chassis before the patch. As I said this is not all their fault, but the longer you wait for this the more people are going to complain. If without further decompression, it will be even more painful than this when decompression inevitably come later.

However since you all decided to not decompress 12.0+, I am not going to comment on particular choice you made, all I am saying is without further decompression, no problem will be solved no matter how hard you try to move them around.

My POV on BR of new top tier.
I want to bring this topic inevitably. I know purposefully compressing the BR of the top tier has been the particular choice of Gaijin and WT in general. I understand your choice but I have to mention that this has been contributing majorly to the bad experience of the game.
There are always ways you can monetize and even without this purposeful compression people will still purchase and go for something new, you as dev don’t have to push people like this, it will only hurt the experience more than you would like. In other word, the gain is too small for what it cost to do this.
I would quote the exact word I said on May last year: Be confident with your game, you have sooo much content in it that will never run out, and people will always crave for more, go for other nations and other game mode. I have friends with thousands of hours in game that have not unlocked even half of the game content, so yeah that’s just a picture.

and lastly, some words, and
My suggestion toward BR below 10.0
Since you guys havn’t change anything here I am not going to give things that are too specific, but here’s a list of what I am more or less concern with and what I think should be raised:
F104A/C, Mig19, Mirage Milan, Hunter F.58, Hunter F.6, AV8C, Yak38(M), Mig21F-13(J7II), Su7, Lightning, Sea Vixen, Jaguar GR1, Harrier GR3, T2, Q5s, Ariete, Ayit.
Noted that not all of them needs change, but it might be a good idea to take a look after these.

As the final words on this report, I’d like to thank you for this unscheduled BR change again, although it might be overdue or it should not be a problem in the first place, it is never too late to change. I once again remind everyone that back in the day in WT we used to have plane with different BR only because they have slightly different arm or 100hp difference in their engine, Bf109F2 can totally fight with F4, and they are 1.0 apart from each other. If we spent 6.0 BR for WW2 aircraft within that 5 or 6 years, we should certainly not compress every single supersonic jets from Mig17 to Su27SM in just 4.7 BR. There’re still a ton of work to be done.
And do note that, we don’t need this in hurry, if you need time for this then do it and we will let you cook, but be sure to bring out some delicious dish for us.

10 Likes
429

The F-15A is too low.

430

sorry the same tier and the f16 specifically mlu should be able to carry its true loadout when it goes against brain dead f14 players who launch a aim54 from spawn and gripens with aim9ms

431

Nice joke I’m laughting “hahaha”