- Yes
- No
I would like to suggest this unique Mainly with 15mm Mg 151/15 (like the more powerfull aquivalent to the US and USSR 12,7mm guns) (preferably as a modification to switch between) Sd.Kfz. 251/17 with the Mg 151/15 and Mg 151/20 there were at least 2 modified to fit the Mg 151(on the pictures are 2 visible, one which has the 3501 and big Balkenkreuze on it and another in plain camoflage, they could be the same, but i dont think so because the marked one has field modified handles fittet to the side angled armor plates looking like taken from a spade, while it is possible that they are the same and they were later put on, i think not, because the crews were later told NOT to draw big crosses centered on vehicles, because especally the russians used them as shooting targets so the unmarked would be the later picture but it doesnt have the handles).
Main visiual difference appart from the gun is the new gunshield which similar to the Late 3,7 cm Gunshield of the Sd.Kfz. 251/10 is only on one side instead of the original allround shield. The Sd.Kfz. 251/17 was as Main production with the well known small turret with the 2 cm KwK or Flak 38, but the production of that model started late 41 or 42 because of Production problems, where material was needed elsewhere, and befor the Main Vehicle entered production several different models with AA cannons were tested and put on the Sd.Kfz 251, these where all summerised under the designation /17, so this is a /17 and at the same time not.
Pictures:(Click to show)
Mg 151/15 visible by the long barrle, with the small big part where it goes over to the muzzle break. And overall visible to be an Mg 151 as it doesnt have the distingt muzzle break and most importantly it is belt fed instead of having magazins.
And here are some examples of the turrets, and how they look.
Pictures of the mountings(Click to show)
Here as well is clearly visible the one sided gunshield and it has the shorter barrle so it is the 20mm Mg 151/20. (There was also a picture of the vehicle with the barrle elevated, but i could only find it extremly small and really bad resolution.)
Also noticeable by the unique barrle holding part (i dont know the part) with the 4 cylinders.
The story about the unique vehicles with Mg 151 instead of KwK 38 is as above mentioned that multiple different ideas where tested to make more AA vehicles., but the Sd.Kfz 251/17 (which these still are basically) where build to defend the ground troops from the ever growing enemy airforce which got more and more power by the day. But that wasnt the only task, in the first place the /17 replaced the obsolete /10 in the role as the platoon commanders vehicle. Which only had a 3,7 cm Pak. With the new KwK 38 (or Mg 151) the Halftrack could now as sayed above protect against planes, destroy light targets such as armored cars and trucks more easily and be more effective at fighting against infantry.
The cassis is allready in game in the form of the Sd.Kfz. 251/10 /21 and /22 this version is just slightly different in having another turret.
The /17 where possibly put into action in August 1944 and originally had a 2 cm KwK 38 in a 360° Schwebelafette (Hoverlafett)
This version however has an HDL 151 (there are like 5 different versions), this was propably scrapped from a crashed plane. The glass dome is completly removed, a spring is attached (perhalps for better ballance cince the barrle is longer (15mm one) than the normaly fittet 20mm barrle. And a 14,5 mm shield infront of the gunner is placed (unknown angle but inside the ring.) Visible by the newly found picutres it sits at an about 25° backwards angle with a 2nd plate weldet to it protecting the left side.
Place in War Thunder and why i would like to see it:
Many people love half tracks, so do i, but in game are only very few represented in the last updates we got 3, of wich sadly 2 are now rare event vehicles which not many have and have allmost no way of getting.
And the tech tree version is the /21 which is an AA and has the Drilling at 3.3, but this vehicle would be more fitting at a lower Br (1.3 in particular with the 20mm barrle) with a similar playstile to the Swedish Pbil m/40 which has an 20mm autocannon with 36 rounds the /17 could also be counted as a Light tank, while having a high firerate and high damage potential it will also stuggle with 27mm of penetration against stuff other than light vehicles like the T 26 and Lvt 4 which will be destroyed rather quickly but allready starting at the M3 Light for example will be frontally immune and would need to be flanked and even then you would need to get within 200m.
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | 14.5 mm (20°) Engine compartment | |||
| 14.5 mm (29°) Driver cabin | ||||
| 8 mm (42°) Lower glacis | 8 mm (41°) Top - Engine | |||
| 8 mm (35°) Top - Crew compartment | ||||
| 8 mm (19°) Bottom - Engine | ||||
| 8 mm (34°) Bottom - Crew compartment | ||||
| 8 mm + 8 mm (34°) Storage bins | ||||
| 8 mm Bottom - Undercarriage | 8 mm (30°) | |||
| 5.5 mm (41°) Lower glacis | 8 mm (9°) Engine compartment | |||
| 5.5 mm Driver compartment |
Turret: 14,5 mm angled backwards (perhaps 45-50°).
Armarment: 1x Mg 151/15 or /20 (possibly modification like on planes)
Ammo: 750-1500 rounds (2-3 250-500 round boxes like on the /21 in the middle or still original HDL 151 box which from the different versions could carry between (because of different versions) 250 to 1000 rounds.)
The depression and elevation would be (because of the exact model isnt know) between -30° and +90° not taking the obstruction by the vehicle into the calculation. So i assume in game it would be -10°to the front, -30° to the sides -5-10° to the back and well +90° anywhere. The turrets can also be allready found in game on the Ls 3, Ls 4, Bv 138 C-3, Me 264 and Ju 188 (all different versions, you can see the whole arrangement. Check it out.)
Ammo and Belt types will most certainly be the same as the /21 in game has, just that the ApI-T and HVAP-T are wrong, the following are correct:
Ap-I (no tracer) 0,059kg 960m/s
HVAP (no tracer) 0,0545kg 9,5mm 39g core 1040m/s
More detail of rounds available:
AP:
Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Ap-T) 0,072kg 850m/s 0g filler 33mm/10m
Pzbrgr. o.Zerl. (Ap-I) 0,059kg 960m/s 0g filler 35mm/10m
H-Pzgr. o.Zerl. (HVAP) 0,0545kg 1050m/s 39g core 9,5mm 51mm/10m
Sprgr. L'Spur m.Zerl Üb. (Saphe-T / Phe-T) 0,057 kg 960m/s 1,1g Pent (1,87g) Some penetration
Nose Fuze:
Brsprgr. L`Spur o.Zerl (HeI-T) 0,057kg 960m/s 1,9g Pent (3,23g)
(Could only find the m.Zerl version, o.Zerl is the same just without the little hole between charge and tracer)
Brsprgr. Gl`Spur. o.Zerl. (HeI-T night) ditto
Sprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 0,057kg 960m/s 2,8g Pent (4,76g) (Didnt go into service)
Sprgr. Gl`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T night) ditto (Didnt go into service)
Brgr. L`Spur/Gl'Spur. o.Zerl. 0,057kg 960m/s 0,6g Pent (1,02)
(Could only find the m.Zerl version, o.Zerl is the same just without the little hole between charge and tracer)
The 20mm Version can also be found in game on Planes.
as well as an Minengeschoß belt.
Sources:
In game
Handbuch für Flugzeug Bordmunition
Panzer Tracts No. 15-2 mittlere Schuetzenpanzerwagen (Sd.KfZ.251) Thomas L.Jentz (and 2 other of him)
Panzergrenadier Aces German Mechanized Infantrymen in World War II Franz Kurowski
SdKfz 251 Half-Track 1939-45 Bruce Culver