Schulfahrzeug 1-5b. Serie/La.S. mit MG 34/42 Zwillingssockel 36; field conversion of the Panzer I

[BatjeMB]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• Maybe
• No

Hello everyone. Today I want to suggest the Schulfahrzeug 1-5b. Serie/La.S. mit MG 34/42 Zwillingssockel 36, or simply Panzer I mit Zwillingssockel 36. A new anti-aircraft vehicle for the German Tech Tree.

*This vehicle has been suggested before by @WayOfTheWolk at the old War Thunder forums, so i’m suggesting this vehicle again.

Illustration made by Godzilla. (Source: Tank Encyclopedia)

History
In the First World War, the idea of protecting troops from air attacks/air raids was brought up. They used machine guns or small guns on trucks to protect themselfs from low-flying aircraft. This idea was kept in the Second Wold War. The German Army was forbidden from building tanks and AFV’s due to the Treaty of Versailles. Still the German Army began to develop their tanks and AFV’s. When in 1933 the Nazis took over Germany, the Treaty of Versailles was completely disregarded.
The concept of self-propelled anti-aircraft vehicles came up again as the German Army was rearming itself again. The Panzer I mit Zwillingssockel 36 was introduced in 1938, together with some other SPAA’s; one of them using the same Zwillingslafette 36, the Kfz.4 Truppenluftschutzwagen.

The Kfz.4 Truppenluftschutzwagen

The Panzer I Ausf.A und B were introduced in 1935 and saw service throughout the war, even though it was seen as obsolete by 1939. The Panzer I was intended for combat, but some Panzer I chassis would be (re)used as training tanks, called Schulwagen (Eng. training vehicles). These Schulwagens were open-top chassis without armament and superstructure, they kept the engine deck and often had railings. The Schulwagens saw service until the end of the war, but at some point became obsolete. Therefore, many Schulwagens were converted into new roles, one of them being anti-aircraft.

Pictures: (Click to show)

Place in War Thunder
As Germany doesn’t have an SPAA at the BR of 1.0. I think this would be the perfect 1.0 SPAA for Germany. Being similar to the Light AA Mk.1 and GAZ-AAA (4M), this has 2 machine guns instead of 4, though they have a good firerate and better penetration than the Light AA Mk.1 and GAZ-AAA (4M), but the downside is that it doesn’t have as good mobility and the armor protection is worse.

Design
The Panzer I mit Zwillingssockel 36 was based on both the Panzer I Ausf.A and Ausf.B chassis. Both of the versions were similar, the biggest difference was that the Ausf.B was longer with a modified engine compartment (including a new engine) and had one more road wheel.
Hull
The Panzer I hull could be divided into three sections: the front part (where the transmission was placed), the central part (crew compartment), and the rear part (where the engine is located. The Ausf.B hull design was longer to be able to fit the new suspension and larger engine. It also allowed for additional cooling air and the tow coupling to be relocated to the rear. It was made higher for the air intake to cool the engine. There was a new split hatch placed above the engine.
Suspension
The suspension wasn’t changed for the Schulwagen. The suspension of the Ausf.A consisted out of one front sprocket wheel, three return rollers, one idler wheel and four road wheels on each side. The first road wheel was a single wheel, while the second and third road wheels were paired in a leaf spring suspension. The fourth road wheel and the idler wheel were mounted together to a suspension cradle.

(Click to show)

Side view of the Panzer I Ausf.A suspension.

The Ausf.B featured a different suspension. A fifth road wheel and a fourth return roller were added. Instead of a connection between the fourth road wheel and the idler wheel, are the fourth and fifth road wheel connected and the idler wheel was raised.

(Click to show)

Side view of the Panzer I Ausf.B suspension

Engine
The Ausf.A used the Krupp M 305 4-cylinder air-cooled engine. The engine gave the Panzer I 60 hp at 2500 rpm. Giving it a maximum speed of 37 km/h (23 mph).
The Ausf.B used the Maybach NL 38 TL 6 cylinder water-cooled. The engine gave the Panzer I 100 hp at 3000 rpm. Giving it a maximum speed of around 40 km/h (25 mph).

(Click to show)

The Krupp M 305 4-cylinder air-cooled engine at the Tank Museum in Bovington.

Armor

Armor	Front	Sides	Rear	bottom
	13 mm (25°) lower front plate	13 mm	13 mm (22°) top	5 mm (90°)
	8 mm (70°) upper front plate	13 mm (6°) engine bay	13 mm (15°) middle
	13 mm (rounded) transmission		13 mm (55°) bottom
			8 mm (81°) engine bay

(Click to show)

Armor on the Panzer I.

Armament
The Panzer I mit Zwillingssockel 36 was either armed with a dual 7.92 mm MG34 or MG42 machine guns. The MG34 had a rate of fire of 900 rounds per minute, while the MG42 had a rate of fire of ~1500 rounds per minute. It could turn a full 360° horizontally and had a elevation of -15° - +90°. Its max range was 3500 m.

(Click to show)

The Zwillingslafette 36

It was sometimes put on any available car

Technical data of the MG34 (left) and MG42 (right)

Ammunition

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S.m.K. (Ap) 11,55g 785m/s 13mm/10m

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S.m.K. L'Spur (Ap-T) 10g 810m/s 10mm/10m

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S.m.K.H. (Ap(c)) 12,6g 875m/s 19mm/91m

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Pz-Gesch. (Panzergeschoss) (Ap) 10g 810m/s 13mm/10m

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*Please give some attention to Ghostmaxi’s amazing German ammunition index.
Ghostmaxi’s German ammuntion index

Specifications

Schulfahrzeug 1-5b. Serie/La.S. mit MG 34/42 Zwillingssockel 36
Dimensions (L-W-H)	4.61 x 2.13 x 1.12 m
Weight, battle-ready:	Around 4 tonnes
Crew	3 (driver, commander/gunner, loader)
Propulsion	Ausf.A: Krupp M 305 4-cylinder air-cooled, Ausf.B: Maybach NL 38 TL 6 cylinder water-cooled petrol
Transmission	5 spd manual
Speed	Ausf.A: 37 km/h, Ausf.B: 40 km/h (on roads) / 25 km/h (cross-country)
Range	140 km, cross-country: 93 km
Armament	Zwillingslafette 36, 2x 7.92 mm MG 34 or MG 42,
Traverse	360°
Elevation	-15°, +90°
Max range	3500m
Rate of fire	MG34: 900 rpm, MG42: ~1500 rpm
Armor:	Up to 13 mm

Sources

German WW1/2 Tank, Anti Tank guns and more of 7,92mm - 60 cm - Machinery of War Discussion / Ground Vehicle - War Thunder — official forum
Fahrschulwanne Pz I mit Zwillings-MG 42 - Germany - War Thunder - Official Forum
Schulfahrzeug 1-5b. Serie/La.S. mit MG 34/42 Zwillingssockel 36 - Tank Encyclopedia (tanks-encyclopedia.com)
Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf.A (Sd.Kfz.101) - Tank Encyclopedia (tanks-encyclopedia.com)
Maybach Power: The Engine Behind Germany’s Legendary Panzer Tanks (slashgear.com)
Panzer I - Wikipedia
MG42 (7.92 mm) - War Thunder Wiki

[Ghostmaxi]

With S.m.K.H and 22mm Penetration, Maybe. Otherwise no, there are other vehicles (like the Sd.Kfz.250) which have more armor AND speed than this with the same Mounting.

Picture:(Click to show)

[PercussionCap]

+1, new german reserve SPAA? Though this thing might actually beat the Flakpanzer I!

[SmørentheBustard]

this looks awesome

[BSpiel8]

As cool as this is, it is generally agreed upon that the GAZ-AAA (4M) and Light AA Mk I we currently have in-game are lackluster SPAA that are next to useless if the plane isn’t directly above them.

Those vehicles have four low caliber MGs, so I can’t see how this vehicle would work with only two MGs at the same battle rating.

I will vote yes in case of a future lower rank extension, but currently this vehicle doesn’t really have a place at even the lowest of BRs.

[SinisterIsRandom]

Given its a field conversion some variants do exist.

[jon_man1199]

A +1 from me would be neat to see. That said I would love to hear someone say this name 6x fast haha

[BatjeMB]

Why not add both.
More WWII stuff and 2 new fun SPAA’s and I think that more Panzer I based vehicles would be fun.

[SmørentheBustard]

I like this

[Ghostmaxi]

Because this has No armor, No speed and No firepower.
While the russian Gaz Truck has 4 guns (instead of 2) and is a quick truck.
And the british Light Tak AA has also 4 guns, is still much faster and has armor to protect effectively against MG fire.
Tho what all 3 have in common is, that they are simply Bad.

[DMYEugen]

Easy +1. Would be a cute silly thing to run around in.

[Insanerobert]

Perhaps this vehicle would make more sense in a game like Enlisted. In WT, the caliber is too low to be effective enough even against planes, so I would say No. If there’s a variant with a 15cm heavy MG/light autocannon that can penetrate up to 50mm armor, then that will be more interesting and relevant for this game.

[BatjeMB]

There are two SPAA’s based on a Panzer I with a bigger armament.
There’s one with a 1,5 cm Drilling and one with a 3,7 cm cannon.
Although these two are definitely better and more relevant. I think that this vehicle would be an alright 1.0 SPAA or for the future if more Interwar and WWI vehicles will get added. Tho I do understand your thoughts about it.

[Ghostmaxi]

@Insanerobert

15cm heavy

If you find such a 15 cm gun on a Vehicle, be shure to send me the photo, would make a interesting suggestion.

[BSpiel8]

Probably a typo, in actuality I think they were referring to the 15 mm MG 151 rather than a 15 cm gun.

Of course there is the Sturmpanzer I Bison on the Panzer I hull mounting a 15 cm sIG 33, but last I recall that vehicle can’t carry any of its ammunition onboard.

[BSpiel8]

Evidently the Germans enjoyed the practicality of the M-4 anti-aircraft weapon, because in addition to multiple photos showing captured GAZ-AAA with these guns in captured service, I also found this one where they decided to mount it onto a British Bedford OXD truck.

[Ghostmaxi]

I know, but swush.

In not saying that the Mg Zwilling 34 in itself is bad, especially not with the right ammo (S.m.K.H)
But its not the most ideal in game ESPECIALLY not on the unarmored and slow chassis, while the other 2 vehicles are either quite fast, or fast and have enove armor to not get shredded by Mg fire.

[BSpiel8]

I agree that this vehicle doesn’t have a place in the game currently, and in this case, I think it largely boils down to the lack of firepower rather than armor and speed. Perhaps if it was armed with a quad MG mount then I would change my stance.

[Ghostmaxi]

@BSpiel8

quad MG mount then I would change my stance.

Well, the same mount also existed with Mg 42s, which would make a fire rate of 2400-3200 rpm, that would somewhat compensate to other 4 mount weapons, like the Besa which in High mode only goes to 850 rpm. Tho would still lack somewhat.

[BSpiel8]

All that is left would be to find a vehicle carrying that weapon I suppose, at the very least MG 42s offer enough fire output to be equivalent to the GAZ and Light AA so it would be playable.