SARH Multipathing

Multipathing is a side-effect of radars where the radar locks onto the reflection of a target off the ground.
In War Thunder, this mechanic is very strong, as any top tier player will know. Hug the ground and you’ll be entirely safe from radar missiles. However, this is apparently inaccurate for many of the missiles in game. My questions are:

  • What missiles are resistant to multipathing IRL? Is it just anything with an IMPS?
  • How resistant are these missiles? I’m guessing they’re not entirely immune. How exaggerated is multipathing for these missiles in-game?
  • Would it be worth removing/reducing multipathing to realistic levels? Do you think there’d be balancing or gameplay issues?

Someone already made a post on this. No need to create more posts on the same subject.

I know the 7M’s stated min altitude is 5m. This was achieved via a mix of a new seeker, a new “smart” fuse, and a new directional warhead, though thats not really relevant for low alt intercepts, it just makes the missile more lethal). I made a bug report about this and its been acknowledged, but not been acted on. The fact it can guide on PD signal likely helps as well, though I’m not 100% sure of that.

The skyflash is also highly resistant to MP, as is the R-27ER allegedly (though I’ve heard competing claims).

AIM-54A and C use PD seekers, and the 54C specifically has a whole new digital seeker, which, though we don’t have exact numbers on performance, was stated to great improve accuracy in high clutter environments. Particularly to combat very low altitude waves of sea skimming AShM’s. (Gaijin pretends the 54A and 54C have the exact same seeker in-game though, making the 54C effectively worse in every way). The 54C also uses a new “smart” fuse and directional warhead, though if I understand correctly, its fuse is directly related to the radar itself.

All the new ARH’s should also be highly resistant to MP.

Gaijins already stated they model multipath the way they do as a “balancing factor”. Imo this is shortsighted and stupid as a balancing factor since 1. thats what BR’s are for and 2. it unfairly sways missile performance for S/ARH’s towards pure kinematics performance instead of seeker performance, which makes the 7F better than the skyflash for example despite not really being the case irl (the 7F’s seeker was inaccurate, its why it got a bigger warhead, so it could afford to miss a bit more) or the R-27ER better than everything, particularly when gaijin’s other game modeling features greatly favor eastern missiles, such as missile diamonds no matter what if the missiles motor is burning, which is an advantage for short burn high thrust missiles (seemingly the eastern missile doctrine) and a disadvantage for long burn and/or low smoke motors (oddly mostly western missiles).

Excessive multipath is also a major disadvantage for planes with advanced sensors and good S/ARH missiles but poorer performance, such as the Tornado, or the MiG-29SMT, by allowing all other jets inferior at long range combat a “get out of jail free” card where they can close the range no matter what you try to do because multipath will handhold them to the merge.

IMO, excessive multipath in WT is the single worst thing to have ever happened to top tier air RB, and the game cant really move forward into the modern jet era properly without reworking the mechanic.

As some people have said, the new ARH missiles likely wont change much if multipath is kept to the excessive level currently seen, since you will always have a way to avoid them with 0 skill required. If anything, they will actually reinforce the terrible low altitude multipath furball garbage that is the current “meta”, because the game punishes players who bother learning radar missile combat by offering the single biggest in-game crutch to all players who couldnt be bothered to learn.


use this thread:

how hard is it to search for threads and use the ones there already are?

That’s for ARH, this is for SARH.


nothing in your main post says that.

The title?

which he changed just now… before it was just “multipathing”

I think that’s the problem with removing multi pathing. It just moves the no skill problem somewhere else.

You can have jets be able to close the gap with no skill and dogfight you or have a jet fire off a radar missile and get a kill with no skill (current example of that type of gameplay would be firing off an r-27er against a hi alt target, basically a guaranteed kill atm).

Without more advanced game mechanics such as EW I don’t think multi pathing should be removed.

Sure, but either way, multipath affects more than ARH missiles, and is a known issue on current SARH’s like the 7M. Limiting the convo to only ARH’s and in a dev thread is silly, particularly when dev threads largely get abandoned once the patch goes live

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oh absolutely. i can do nothing but agree.
but as the thread stood when i commented it VERY much looked like just a copy of that thread. even the same image is used.

Thats not the right way to look at it, and its the same fallacy as people who complain top tier tanks requires no skill.

Good players are players that are capable of killing enemies without themselves dying. The skills required to do so are situational awareness, understanding and proper utilization of game mechanics, proper positioning, and identification and capitalizing on enemies mistakes. Removing a crutch which serves as a way to ignore learning and developing most/all of those skills does not move the skill problem to people getting kills with no skill, it moves the skill towards being able to punish enemies for mistakes while not making mistakes and subsequently getting punished yourself, which is much harder to do.

Reducing/removing multipathing does not make getting kills “easier” in any way except if the target is purely relying on MP to defeat the missile, you still wont be able to kill the good players who’ve bothered learning radar missile combat easily, you’ll just be able to kill the ground hugging pilots too busy trying to get their hand out of their tub of glue their mom packed them for lunch easier.

To touch on your R-27ER example, there’s a few things to unpack with that one specifically since the R-27ER is a special case, in that the missile is the one that gains the most from gaijins specific mechanics in-game:

  1. It uses skid to steer guidance (single plane) which is what gaijin models all missiles as. This gives it a massive advantage in maneuverability compared to other missiles that used combined plane maneuverability irl.
  2. It has a short burn high thrust motor, which is ideal in WT, since missile diamonds only appear while the motor burns, making short burn high thrust motors the least visible in-game.
  3. Its zone of highest pK overlaps with the max range for missile detection in WT (~10km) which means its near impossible to defend against if they get too close, another great reason why MP allowing people to get close for free is unfair

Now that I’ve covered what makes the R-27ER specifically unfair in WT, I can cover your example of high alt R-27ER shots being a free kill. Its not, its a free kill if they get close enough to you, or if they misjudge their capability in BVR. We currently have advanced RWR’s, which means unless the enemy jet is in your RWR blindspot, you will know what radar is pointed at you and from what direction. We also have missile launch warnings for CW guidance, which will tell you when they fire. Its up to you as the person without the ER to play around this info and properly position and defend the missiles to force them to waste ER’s on you. I personally fly at alt almost all the time, and when i die to ER’s, which is relatively rare (I tend to get 3rd partied by a fox 2 instead), its always been due to a mistake I made, not because the ER is a “free kill”.

As for EW, if anything, THATS a mechanic that shouldnt be added. EW is complex and would require its own complex set of mechanics to model. Its also much harder to get data on, and most games end up just modelling it as noise that needs to be powered through rather than actual complex mechanics. Its also a whole new world of mechanics for gaijin to flub in the name of “balance”.

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Link please?

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