one question… why does russia have 11.3 ARM missiles while other nations don’t? in no way i scream bias here but i want to play somehting else on that br and just saw that it is a lil bit scruffy and that is why russian sams are killing me more often lol
High enough for the ground battle area to appear tiny. The pilot used TV guided munitions for the duel and he won in the end. That is all I remember.
I think the main reason these systems feel overpowered is the presence of mouse-guided missile control. In my opinion, this should not be available on any SAM system. We do not have direct mouse guidance for BVR missiles on aircraft, so why should ground-based SAMs receive such an unrealistic advantage?
In reality, the operator would keep the target centered in the sight while the fire-control system calculated the necessary guidance commands. The missile remained command-guided by the vehicle’s systems rather than being manually steered with joystick-like, or mouse-like, precision.
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Considering how automatic guidance is handled in game, and being a Roland enjoyer, i think i can confirm without any doubt it would make those system even more OP - well not “more OP”, you can already guide them this way - but not any less OP either
Roland mouse guided is a non issue to evade if you roll a bit.
Roland in automatic mode ? 8km bubble of death
2S6 and OSAs are, i would say far less problematic though.
both have limited elevation on their radar, 2S6 has more limited range and OSA’s missile is quite slow, like Roland.
OSA is .3 or .7 higher than Roland, 2S6 an entire Br, which seems somewhat coherent.
Maybe you could bump them up by 0.3 or they could go up with decompression, but other than that…
Pantsir though, that’s an other question. This thing still being at 12.0 makes little sense on so many levels
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Too be fair, all SAM systems were never meant to be manually guided as a primary method. You lock the target and fire. Just because it has SACLOS guidance requiring LOS which allows manual adjustment doesn’t mean that is the way it should be.
On paper it may not, but you have to play it to understand why. People outrolling it’s missles, carrying rockets to detonate the missles midflight, extremely immobile. Only enough ammo for a few rounds. Helicopters that carry more IR munitions then it can reliably intercept etc.
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I think quite the oppisite, mouse guidance allows a lot more room for failure versus using the radar for automatic targeting and guidance. It is not at all an unrealistic advantage–it is if you run into people who constantly abuse it (Competitive Pantsir Players).
I hardly see any areas where SPAA would need nerfs in. As it currentely stands CAS is viable, and that’s simply thanks to how fast they can react the second they see the battlefield, they have absolutely no startup delay, nothing. Peak fire and be gone. and that’s not including if there is more than 1 plane up. or add a helicopter to the mix. You very quickly get overwhelmed.
And depending on how close they get to the battlefiled it renders a majority of the SAMS useless, and no amount of buffing will fix that. As I’ve said time and time again, it all comes down to the map design. No sense in adding a patriot system if a Rafale or Eurofighter can get within 12kms on most maps and know for a fact that most SPAA will be forced to stay in spawn, mark the map and sling bombs ethier without every showing or go so fast that the missles simply can’t keep up off the rail.
Nuclear Thunder is the only place I’ve seen SAMS taken seriously and CAS unable to pull all the nonsense they can in Ground RB because the mode is built correctly around the entire aspect of SEAD. So much so that something as the BUK M3 was extremely hard to avoid since it has a tracking director that makes multipathing or notching next to nothing and had to be replaced with something weaker.
That problem is also present on ITO, which less missiles and no guns for self defense
So still, both being at the same Br does not make sense
Its mostly in BR.
Sure, most CAS vs most SPAA is reasonably fair. I think some need adjustments, but its mostly fine.
But there are outlyers, where encountering a certain SPAA just renders it totally and completely impossible to do anything. Basically any 11.0/11.3 CAS vs a Pantsir for example. There is no justification for it to be so low at 12.0, it outperforms a fewer 12.3s at the moment.
there are also some like the OSA and 2S6 which sit notably lower than they should given their performance, probably should be more like 11.3.
You also have the quite major difference in performance and reliability between IGLA and Stinger because Gaijin refuses to actually model Stinger properly, believing it to be weaker than IGLA and therefore denying any primary source that would buff it.
Now, its not only Soviet stuff over BRed, but its a hell of a lot of them. You could give every single soviet SPAA a 0.3 BR increase right here right now and it would be pretty balanced imo
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Yeah, no.
Shilka cannot go up, nor the Shilka with Iglas. Tunguska is at the appropriate rating considering the threats posed, and the methodologies to defeat it are pretty straight forward. OSA is a joke if you simply pay attention to your RWR and stay below 3km vertical. They are also at the rating that contains munitions that match, or exceed, the maximum range of these systems.
The correct approach is to move platforms down instead of kneecapping SPAA purely because it is soviet. Alternatively, introduce ARMs to lower ratings for those who oppose 2s6 and Osa (ARMs should be distributed to all carriers, regardless of this however). Especially notable is that SPAA are often introduced at a higher rating than they ought to be, to provide effective defence.
And those issues magically affect only pantsir apparently
People can outroll SAM missles, but since they can multipath, this isn’t done often.
Normal SAMS in particular will just get overwhelmed so the tactics change depending on what you are facing.
ITOs and ADATS are beam riding weapons and also face the same problem but on a worser scale.
broski, i dont need to be told how SAMs act. You completly missed the point.
Respectfully then, reinstate your point
I won’t comment on whether the SAM is OP or not. Naturally, tank drivers would prefer it to be.
The only thing I will strive to do is protect the tanks from CAS to the best of my abilities even if they were nerfed in the future.
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so we not going to mention the battle pansir then?
that 1 year ago did the Pantsir SM SV exist there mate???
if I can use the A10 premium at top tier and consistently kill Buks, and pantsirs, and other shit with no problem then there is no reason, that you should be struggling with other planes
fair enough didn’t see the date
Pantsir Sm SV is not the sole problem, and it shouldn’t matter to some degree because CAS is not supposed to be running the show.
Helicopter also exist.