SAMs are too OP

Machinery of War Discussion
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42

Then you will need to learn how to defend against SAMs being fired at you.

Sure there are certainly some tweaks that could be made to aircraft, such as moving the spawns further away. But to expect to be able to bomb with impunity is unrealistic.

Again, sure these can be added, but they shouldnt make aircraft immune to attack. Only add another level to the fight. Though something like the IRIS-T SLM would be largely unaffected by either.

43

Since I dont think real players consent to being bombed by, well, anything, I suppose you gotta work for it.

Let me ask you this, why your targets have to be real players? Whats wrong with AI targets?

1 Like
44

Real players don’t consent to be my targets at any B.R. But, it is at top B.R that I find it disproportionately difficult to victimize them.

If I wanted to play against A.I I would not be grinding a multiplayer game.

45

Because you keep insisting on use of iron bombs and rockets for historical reasons.

Hey man, ultimately, I know you will again say that realism is a spectrum, but judging by your pools, you are alone on this.

46

I’ll die on this hill then.

47

Then get better at it. You are choosing to take worse weapons and complaining that it is harder.

That is like someone going “I want to main heatfs in top tier but everyone has era and composite armor. why cant they nerf that armor so it is easier to use heatfs?”

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48

You are free to do so, as you are free to use iron bombs and rockets on top tier planes for CAS.

Just dont go out of your way to say that it is unfair to you that other players dont want to get bombed.

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49

It would be a net positive to finally have some more in depth play between the 2 branches. Currently it’s just salvo off a host of missiles against the threat with the hope one gets through. Is that referring to planes or SAMs? It don’t matter as they both play the same.

50

Yeah, agreed, though currently spading the Rapier, and my god it needs buffs

51

The rapier could be 6.7 and still need buffs, frankly.

I’m struggling to find reason to finish researching it. Oh how my excitement for the British tree has fallen since getting my first Chally 😿

52

Gonna bump this up to see if there are any opinion changes.

53

hello again

54

I’m going to be honest. A lot of the SAM systems have completely fallen off since their introudction (except the Pantsir SM-SV) even the S-1 is starting to show signs of struggle in certain instances.

If we take Nuclear Thunder for example, this is where most of the multi-vehicle SAMS actually get a chance to shine, because they have range to their advantage. On most maps (with a few exceptions) it’s very small, lots of terrain, and minimal time to react if a CAS pilot who knows what he’s doing wants a SAM system dead. The only complaints I’ve heard so far is about the Pantsir, because it challenges the engagment times by being able to react fast and use LOS.

The initial response to SAMS was that they were “op” until people figured out how to get around most of them. Close the distance, render them useless, or overwhelm them and drain their interceptor supply.

Introducing artifical limits on missles would just be outright nerfing missles.

Restricting the amout of anti-air units while CAS having absolutely 0 restriction on how many units they can spawn in-turn would completely lopside the game.

Adding proper SEAD wouldn’t be plausible since with SEAD it’s a group effort, not a 1 man Army as most people try to attempt and complain about when they can’t do that.

As I said prior, the only complaints I’ve heard SAMs is from the Pantsir, simply because it outright challenges CAS like no other SAM system can. But for some reason, that’s apparantely a problem because CAS is apparantely supposed to run the show.

I don’t hear anybody advocating for better SAM systems given how mediocore the ones we already have in-game are. It’s simply about making the best one worse in some way, shape, or form or “equivalent” to the rest. While knowing the “equivalents” are pretty much not hard to deal with a pilot who knows what they’re doing.

Smas around 10.3 to 11.0, people can just outright climb to space to get above their radars.

3 Likes
55

The only real counterargument is that spawning a jet equipped with long-range guided weapons requires a significant number of spawn points. From my experience, not many players earn enough kills in a single match to afford those loadouts. If someone manages to spawn a CAS aircraft carrying a full load of long-range precision-guided munitions, they’ve probably earned it, and, frankly, the opposing team deserves whatever is about to happen.

I don’t grind War Thunder, and at top tier I can usually only afford to spawn in a CAS aircraft armed with unguided rockets or conventional bombs. More often than not, I don’t have enough spawn points for expensive long-range guided weapons. Maybe that’s a skill issue, but I don’t really care.

My point is that it used to be nearly impossible for players like me to play top-tier CAS effectively with unguided rockets and dumb bombs because of the overwhelming number and arguably unrealistic effectiveness of SAMs. With the recent changes, I noticed that the situation has improved. The missiles became slightly less effective, at least from my expirience.

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56

What do you mean by that? I haven’t noticed any drastic changes in missile performance between all the SAMS.

57

Some are OP for their BRs (Pantsirs, 2S6, OSA, etc)

Some are totally DOA (Basically any with stinger)

but it can change constantly and rapidly depending on context. What BR is it? Uptier or downtier? What SPAA vs what CAS?

There is some areas though that SPAA need buffs (like most of the top tier SAMs vs Helis) but likewise plenty of areas where SPAA need nerfs (mostly BR changes) or even areas where CAS needs buff.

So TLDR. Not all SAMs are OP. Not all CAS is OP. Sometimes a CAS or SAM can be OP and other times they are DOA.

58

To think, the introduction of lower rated ARMs could have moved some SPAA down and given the devs more a reason to improve the lethality of toptier options.

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59

Your initial argument however wasnt that top tier guided ordnance CAS is too expensive to spawn in; your initial argument was that iron bombs and rockets are what soviet airforce historically used for CAS and fact you cant them use in WT as such due to player controlled SAMs is unrealistic.

Two entirely different arguments to be made here.

60

Yes, that was the case. SAMs were ridiculously overpowered back then. It didn’t matter whether you were flying with unguided rockets, dumb bombs, or guided weapons, you were still going to get spammed by missiles pulling absurd amounts of G. From what I remember, I was engaged by SAMs almost immediately after spawning on more than one occasion. I even got shot down by an IRST-guided system while flying at treetop level on my upwind leg, for crying out loud.

Even putting that aside, I remember watching a video where an Osa was exchanging fire with a CAS aircraft flying practically in the stratosphere. The pilot was using what you would call “BR-appropriate” stand-off weapons, yet the Osa was still able to engage him. From his perspective, the battlefield below looked like a tiny dot. That’s blatantly ridiculous.

61

And funnily enough, it wasnt up until IRIS-T SLM when AAs finally caught up to CAS capability (only to be outright cucked by LDIRCM helis patch after lol).

At what alt/distance? What plane? What “standoff” weapon?

Whenever that was ridiculous or not can change drastically depending on the answer to those questions.

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