As a proof i didnt saw any other ppl complaining about t72 and i myself have a very fun and ez time spading it
T-72A is generally better in a downtier than the Sabra, but the Sabra is much better in an uptier than the T-72A, so I do agree with you on that.
It’s definitely not green everywhere, and the Sabra is better against the T-72A in every other way.
Sure, but the armour is not the only thing that’s going well for the Sabra, unlike with the T-72A in an uptier.
Mid engine, I agree, but better reverse speed (which can save you many times).
Eh, they’re both just as mediocre in my opinion.
All tanks suffer in uptier.
I am saying Sabra and many Nato MBTs suffer less because they don’t rely mostly on armour to be good.
NATO MBTs tend to have higher skill ceilings than Russian MBTs because of that.
It can perform fairly well.
I just think there are better options at that BR, though.
No complaints here either.
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It doesnt need to and make sanse thats why its a br higher
And t72 has low profile and autoloader
Pros and cons
Ok but nato mbts less good on downtiers
Tbh i dont know better 9.3 imo t72 is the best but u can argue with kpz 70
Good this debate exhausted me.
It adds to the trollyness of the armour
Yeah.
Yes, but it doesn’t really matter a lot of the time, especially with good optics.
The autoloader isn’t that great (again, 7.1s is alright but nothing crazy).
Only is noticable when you take into consideration that you can still load 7.1s with only 2 crew.
In most cases, yeah. That’s the deal that’s going on.
But at its own tier (against other 9.3s), it isn’t that good.
KPZ 70 is also good, but AMX-32, OF-40 MTCA, Olifant Mk.2, and maybe CM 11 / ZTZ96 are all pretty nice against other 9.3s and above, more than T-72A is.
7.1 is very well in 9.3 and yea 2 crew 7.1 is a massive advantge keep u fully opertional
Idk man t72 is my first soviet aotuloader and i like it so much in fact in this tank i have the best performance i dropped 2 nukes 1 match with 17 kills (record im pretty sure) and i could make more if i didnt run out of ammo
This tank cant go down in br
It’s below average - which is 6.7s (though you need to ace it to get it for most vehicles).
KPZ-70 has above average reload (6.0s)
T-72 has below average reload (7.1s)
It is fine where it is at, and I am not saying you can’t do well in it - obviously you can (especially in a full downtier).
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Just a note about KPz-70.
I’ve been playing Japan’s 9.7 autocannon spam vehicle with 30mm darts that have over 110mm of flat pen. This thing can’t do shit to KPz-70 from the front, and even from the sides the turret can’t be penetrated if it’s slightly angled thanks to the composite armor.
Shooting at the side of the hull is also a pain as all the crew and ammo is in the turret, so you’ll mostly hit nothing and 30mm dart doesn’t really spall.
Pair this with it’s incredible mobility, gun handling, reload speed and 20mm autocannon, I think I’d face T-72s over that thing any day of the week, they are so annoying to deal with it’s crazy.
In my opinion that’s the hands down the best 9.3 currently.
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I see what you mean, although I do think it can struggle against other 9.3s (despite most of them being squishy), and especially in uptiers.
The round is around as good as the T-62’s, which is abysmal for 9.3, to say the least (especially the spalling).
The mobility and reload is great for the BR, though - as well as having really good armour against autocannons (even 40mm ones).
But I’d choose something like the AMX-32 (great reverse speed + average round + thermals and ESS combo), or CM11 (5s reload + thermals and ESS combo + DM63) , or Olifant Mk.2 (decent reverse speed + thermals and ESS combo + decent upper turret armour + DM63) if I want to deal with uptiers,
but the KPZ-70’s round is fine against most 9.3s.
Why u expect to pen mbt from the front??
The round is the only thing stopping it from being brokenly OP at 9.3, so in my opinion it won’t struggle against anything at it’s BR.
I don’t know what to tell you about that.
Worst vehicles you can meet in a full uptier will be something like T-72/64B, T-80UD, ZTZs, etc. and you aren’t really going to lolpen them regardless of what round you use, so you won’t escape the aiming part.
Spalling is great but (in most cases) you’re trading a lot of reload speed for that so for me, thermals are the only real con.
Let’s take AMX-32/KPz-70 vs ZTZ as an example.
Both will aim at the same weakspots with French vehicle being able to use thermals and have a bit of spall advantage.
KPz-70 will be much faster with much better gun handling, gun depression (adaptive suspension) and reload speed.
I don’t know about you, but I’d take that over shitty gen1 thermals and more spalling, but that’s just me.
Yes as it’s an go-kart with top tier levels of mobility, gun handling and reload that also comes with 20mm autocannon.
Not to mention it’s mantlet area is a black hole capable of eating top tier shells. KPz-70 is one of the most toxic vehicles you can fight at around 9.3.
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Fair enough.
Yeah, the more pen cannot really penetrate new frontal weak spots in a full uptier (in most cases), but it can help in other ways, like actually being able to penetrate the side of a T-80UD:
Don’t forget that AMX-32 gets thermals and ESS, so you can make it so that enemies without thermals cannot see you, but you can. I find it extremely helpful with the Olifant Mk.2, for example.
The extra spalling can compensate for the lack of a 6.0s reload since it can enable you to 1-shot more consistently, which means you do not have to shoot twice and have the possibility of dying from that same enemy, most notably when having to deal with multiple targets.
But in the end, I think they’re both really good vehicles, it may just come down to pereference to which you’d rather use in an uptier.
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I have played KPz-70/XM-803 before UD was a thing so I cannot comment on that one, but I do agree that round will have some issues going through side-mounted K5 on the UD.
Yeah ESS shenanigans can be useful against people that aren’t aware thermals don’t get blocked. That is indeed a positive but in my opinion it’s pretty niche due to the nature of the games at 10.3 where thermals aren’t that uncommon and it’s limited uses/cooldown.
I do agree with you, but after ~500 games playing with that dart, I haven’t really noticed that lack of spalling was holding me back to the point I wished I had a better round. It could just be me though.
I do like 6s reload when dealing with multiple targets as disabling your first opponent isn’t that hard, so getting a shot onto another guy faster is beneficial, at least in my eyes.
Mostly true but I’d still give the advantage to KPz-70 though, here’s why.
T-72A at 10.3 will lose it’s firepower and armor advantage for the most part. Tanks up there will gain more mobility, gun handling and thermals in some cases. At that point T-72A has basically no advantages left (outside reload speed maybe) and is clearly inferior in almost every way. This is why most vehicles that have armor as their focal point tend to do worse in uptiers than lighter vehicles focused on mobility.
KPz-70 on the other hand never really had firepower and armor advantage so it has nothing to lose, as it never relied on those parameters to succeed. It’s mobility (29 HP/t), gun handling and reload speed will still be above average meaning it will still have some decent advantages going for it. In my opinion it’s pros/cons will be far less affected by the full uptier.
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u have good reload and mobility cuz it has bad pen and bad armor but its still an mbt so ofc auto canon wont pen from the front
Unfortunately, I can’t say the same with the MBT-70, which has a slightly worse engine (28.5hp/ton instead of 29hp/ton), 4x as little pops of smoke (4/8 instead of 2/16), and more importantly the reload is extremely below average (7.5s instead of the extremely above average 6.0s reload on the KPZ-70).
If I’m being honest, the KPZ-70 could go to 9.7, but at the same time, the MBT-70 could go to 9.0, as the reload just becomes slightly below average.
However, I don’t think the XM803 should be moved down to 8.7, nor do I think it should be at the same BR as the MBT-70.
If the XM803 is perfectly fine at 9.0, the MBT-70 would be like a 9.15 BR vehicle whereas the KPZ-70 would be like a 9.45. They both probably shouldn’t change in BR until further decompression occurs.
The only other reason why I can support the KPZ-70 to be moved up to 9.7 is that the Leo 2K also got moved up, leaving that spot open so that the KPZ-70 wouldn’t just be inferior to the 2K and be at the same BR.
I think the BR difference of 0.3 between the KPZ-70 and 2K would make sense, as the KPZ-70 is almost just as mobile as the 2K (quite similar HP/ton and top speed / reverse speed), has a 20mm like the 2K, is as immune to autocannon fire from the front like the 2K (other than the 2S38’s), and even has a better reload than the 2K (6.0s instead of 6.7s).
The only noticable difference being the 120mm DM23 round found on the 2K, which is MUCH better than XM578E1, which is why there would be the 0.3 BR difference despite the above average reload even at 10.0.
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Yeah I wouldn’t touch them before we got more decompression, but I’d say KPz-70 is probably one of the first 9.3s that should be moved up.
Yeah DM23 is it’s biggest advantage alongside one more crew member and having trolly armor that can bounce darts in some cases.
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i think the funniest thing is that Israel has no mbts at 10.0 or above worth grinding cause no armor or anything that makes them worth grinding. but apparently 2S38 is okay at 10.3? I mean lets be for real, how many sabras do you actually even run into? no one plays Israel cause gaijin has not made it worth it at all. german/russian mains just keep crying ab the fact of the tech tree being even in the slightest at risk of loss of power. totally “unbiased” game
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True and the funny thing is that the merkava should be on par with the 2a7 if not better but gaijin nerfed it so much
5s reload made it a lot more competitive, but I believe that all the 2A7s and 122s need to be moved up to 12.3, or even more with proper decompression.
Im saying if merkava had its real armor it would as good as 2a7 if not better