SAAF JAS-39C Technical Data and Discussion

I think they’re just iterative improvements of the ILS system.

Either the aircraft didn’t have an ILS system installed at delivery so no antenna at all, or that it was entirely internal but Saab, SwAF or other users found it wasn’t reliably receiving ILS signal from the ground station in its original form, so made the antenna wider.
Then perhaps found that it’s position at the back of the stabiliser was still not good under some approaches (potentially the wings occluded it during high-AoA landings), or that having it next to the EW transmitters caused interference. So in more recent years they have moved it forward to where the RWR receiver is located.
There are even older images of 39208 during Taurus KEPD trials in the early 2000s, where it didn’t have the finned antenna
taurus_gripen

Gripen E - the latest development in the Gripen line, has it located in the most recent position where that RWR fairing is on Gripen C. But E doesn’t have the pointed RWR fairing there on the leading-edge of the fin.
So potentially moving of the ILS antenna on Gripen C reflects RWR changes in line with Gripen E’s RWR layout, freeing up space to move the ILS antenna there instead.

I assume how it looks in cutaway drawings just reflects what year the drawing was first produced and/or what references the artist used when drawing it.

That makes sense!
thanks for the info :)

@Gunjob

Why does the Rb75T in game have less explosive TNT equivalent than the RB75?
It has the same explosive mass which is wrong as the entire point of the “T” version was to have more explosives in it (T standing for “tung” meaning heavy in Swedish).
Not only that, but i’m also fairly certain that it isn’t supposed to be a SAP-HE either as the RB75T isn’t any new AGM-65 variant but a Swedish modified AGM-65A (later AGM-65B).
Its also heavier in game but lacks the additional explosives and has less(???) penetration.
Here is an 8 month old report on the missile.
So basically just more explosives strapped behind the shaped charge and designed to create shrapnel in addition to the penetration being stronger.

as it is now its a downgrade instead of being an upgrade.

screenshots of stat cards

shot 2024.06.30 22.34.19
shot 2024.06.30 22.34.14

Guess they thought it was an AGM-65G, explosive mass doesn’t matter here, the AGM-65G kills anything it hits.

So is it just a case of the stat cards having the wrong amount of explosives listed?
The AGM-65G is also listed as having 39kg explosive mass, I can’t remember where but i’m like 95% sure that i’ve seen the AGM-65G listed with the heavier warhead as well.

Edit:
the US air force official website lists the AGM-65G as a heavy warhead variant.
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104577/agm-65-maverick/

AGM-65G and other Blast Penetration Fragmentation Mavericks have a 220lb steel warhead with a 80lb HE filling.

Spoiler

image

It is a 1 hit kill everytime I’ve used it on the Harrier GR7.

This might then be a translation issue… x)
i understood it as more actual explosives, not just that the warhead itself was heavier.
Thanks for the info!

Yeah its not explained very well in Raytheon’s brochure either, they just list the full 300lb weight. But the main different is HEAT vs BPF (SAP-HE in game).
Here is a handy guide;

Spoiler

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Thank you so much!
You do A LOT of great work on the forum and on the issues site! THANKS!

So Sweden basically did an “Ikea” and took the B seeker with the “SAP-HE” warhead to make it more effective than the normal A/B version but cheaper than any of the IR/Laser variants.

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@Gunjob Some questions about flares as i couldn’t find any info while searching.

  1. what characterizes “large” and “small” flares? Like, are there standard sizes that are considered large/small/(huge?) for the sake of the game?

  2. Is there a specific order (of size) flares are fired in?
    for example: If the JAS39C has the 12 huge(?) ones in the pylons, 80 large ones in the body and 640 small ones in the BOL pods. Which ones get fired first?
    Should this be selectable together with the chaff/flare amount and the ability to fire those separately?
    (Or at least to fire the biggest ones first and then descend in effectiveness. It’s not worth “saving” the bigger ones for later if you don’ät survive the first missile x) )

  3. are different flares differently effective against IRCCM missiles and non-IRCCM missiles independent of size. As in; do some jets have more effective flares than others even though both carry “small” flares?

They Large and standard ones are based on the russain ones. Small are bol and bol only. IIRC Large are based on the MIG-23 ones. Dunno about standard ones.

There is, it is pre determined order, it is not based on the size.
And the 12 under the wings are large ones.

depends on the type. shut off seeker do not care about the size, gatewidth do. All sizes are standard, so large on a gripen are the same as the ones on Su-27 and JH-7A.

This doesn’t tell me anything. what are the sizes? is the like a x by x mm/inch size that is considered small/large?

Is there a way to know that order?

didn’t really answer my question. is one large better than another large (against the same missile) depending on plane used?

I knew them at one point, not anymore sadly.

You have to see how they are deployed in game.

As i have said, all flares of the same type are identical, so the only thing that can influence is where they launch.

  1. Calibre, over 50mm if I remember correctly.
  2. Order, I’m not sure if it’s consistent but normally. Integrated first, pods after and loop back to integrated.
  3. Nothing is specifically better against IRCCM.The game had stats for luminosity, and burn duration. So those are the only thing that could impact it.

ok, thanks!

I’m not sure i fully understand, is the loop per flare or is it per “module”?
As in; if i have 3 different sizes located at internal/pod/rail and fire 3 flares, will it fire one flare from each module? or do i need to empty one of the internal modules for it to start fire from one of the rails?

are those stats different per plane/module or a standard per size?

No it will alternate between them.

Standard, only BOL has the expection of being worse than standard calibre CMs.

Basically;
Large
Standard
BOL

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They follow a certain patter. For gripen it is: front fuselage pod, middle fuselage pod, rear fuselage pod, underwing flares, outer BOL, inner BOL, repeat.

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Here it is. Also middle and rear fuselage pod are missplaced.

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@Gunjob
Should bottom fuselage pod deploy in tandem with the front top fuselage one?

Should? No idea, but the 4x fuselage ones are in pairs of two, a pair on the top, and one top paired with the bottom.