The lack of guns and defensive armament is a valid weakness, but a BR case will be stronger if it is based on measurable performance rather than criticism of the balancing team. Payload, top speed at relevant altitudes, acceleration, climb, spawn type and average match results all matter; direct comparison with the B-57A also needs equivalent load and mode conditions.
I would present a compact table for the Vautour IIB, Vautour IIA and B-57A, then explain which common opponents can reliably intercept the IIB before it reaches a useful objective. Separate the request for a bomber airspawn from the request for a lower BR, because either change affects survivability. The official BR feedback thread is the best place for the final proposal, with this topic used to refine the evidence. That approach is much more likely to receive a serious balance review than “who is behind BR balance”.
it has the same speed of B-57, vautour only has better acceleration…
And B-57A been at 8.3 is also bad, IL-28 are 8.0 a plane which has offensive and defensive armament, so is it Russian bias/preference, but Vaoutour IIB at 8.7 is criminal, even the vaoutour IIN in 8.3 with SARH missiles.
this is very wrong
Plus the game doesn’t allow you to open the bomb bay independently, so you first need to drop the bombs under your wings then wait to the bay be open and drop the rest of the bombs, it is time consuming and most of the time it will make you fail your bomb run and die 'cause there are a lot of bomber hunters that you cannot escape.
Adding that every moddification on the Vautour is over 10K RP, it should be way more cheaper…
The game doesn’t allow you to open the bomb bay if all bombs are same type, it will only allow you to open the bomb bay if you use one type of bomb under the wings and other type of bomb in the bomb bay. (By selecting secondary weapons)
IL-28 is way superior even if it is slower you can defend yourself or at least that was my experience when I played both Russian IL-28s
But with Vautour IIA I cannot out run anyone to save myself and get into the main AF to scare enemies, I do not even have a Bomber Air spawn to have way ahead of strikers that run faster than me or people who use fighters as bombers and since Vautour is condemn to only bomb, you get nothing in many matches.
Edit: even sometimes I’m spawned in the airfield and need to take off manually.
i was just curious as to which statshark stats you were referring to, you were the one to mention them
These aren’t my opinions, they are facts based on data shown by in-game testing & Statshark.
as for what’s pertinent to the issue, i’m not sure if the Vautour IIB should go down to 8.3.
in my opinion, it very well could and that wouldn’t harm the bracket much, but what it does need is to move down a rank, back to rank 5, because its downright pitiful to play from a ground start, when racing all the other attackers and napalm-bombing fighters
Statshark’s primary tool is the flight model.
And while it has flaws [notably only allowing clean programs due to lack of inputting drag the last time I tried], the flight model tool is valuable.
That is something that do not depends on you, do you think I want to be spotted and be hunted down?
It is really rare the match where there aren’t people hunting bombers.
And nowadays there many planes that outrun you or has missiles since I’ve said many times you cannot count in the speed, you need something to defend yourselves at a BR where there are some (many) planes with missiles or that match or are faster than your bomber.
Vautour is facing AIM-9B, R-3S, R-3R, AIM-7C, AIM-4G, AIM-4F, R-60, AIM-9P, Matra 530 (The radar missile in the Vautour IIN)
Vautour is facing AIM-9B, R-3S, R-3R, AIM-7C, AIM-4G, AIM-4F, R-60, AIM-9P, Matra 530 (The radar missile in the Vautour IIN)
ok, but now i have some counterpoints :
you don’t actually face the R511, its on your team as a Vautour IIB
those AIM-4s do not have proxy fuse, the slightest maneuver can make them miss entirely.
Sidewinders (both the 9B and R3) can be outran if you’re already a bit far and pulling away, or out-turned if you aren’t.
granted, having to dodge missiles still slows you down putting you at risk of even more missiles (or guns), and, granted again, the other missiles are much more threatening, but its otherwise manageable in the IIB.
by the biggest problem -that i see- is that, if anybody on your team is running napalm bombs or rushing the bases in their attackers, you aren’t reaching the bases before they do.
at best, they leave a base for you to bomb and RTB, at worst, you either lurk and do laps until the bases respawn, or resort to bombing ground units with your innacurate, misaligned bomb-sight
Vautour is not a very maneuverable plane it has no radar, no RWR, no countermeasures; I own the F-106A and I’ve achieved kills with both AIM-4 variants, it is hard to use… yes, but it can actually hit targets.
you can out run them if the guy shots it at a distance above 1.75 km away and you already have a decent speed otherwise you are gonna eat the missile no matter what crazy moves you do and I repeat Vautours aren’t maneuverable planes.
You as a bomber can’t do much, if you are out of bases your only choice is to hide, fly so high and go to a corner til bases respawn, but as I said many times, there are many planes that can spot you before you even can take the decision to go hide and it is more probably that the match is over before bases respawn whether the enemy team is defeated or you are the only survivor and the enemy activates a “Blind Hunt/Avenger” order and it will spot you and then every enemy will be at your tail.
The B is easier to bomb with than the A.
You can stay at a safer altitude with the B thus have more energy potential in RTB.
The B is a superior bomber to the A.
If I play the B today, I’d have a survival rate above 50% [I has above 50% when it was 9.0].
the point is to farm RP and get points in battle which all happens in the first 5 minutes of the match, if survival was the point I’d simply stay high and goin to a corner ignoring objectives and not worrying about getting or losing bases to teammates.
Not running away from F-100, F-104, F-101, F-106, F3H, MiG-21, T-2, etc…
or competing for the bases against B-52 (that have bomber air spawn), F-84F (USA, the french one has no striker air spawn… pity too), Alpha jets, Saab 105, YaK-130, J-22, etc…
you get 0 RP or a pitiful RP/SL reward if you did sh.t during match and with that you cannot unlock or progress in completing the modifications of the plane.
??? so those planes aren’t in the gap where Vautour is forced to face in every match? you know that 8 out of 10 matches are uptier
you are never matched purely with 8.7 planes no more no less… you are either uptiered or downtiered
don’t you read? those planes are the ones you compete for the bases, YaK-130, J-22 are fast; the saab have air spawn (Which gives them a good advantage than to vautour having to spawn in the AF)
