Russian top tier tanks need a fair buff

[Panther2995]

@An Pigeon

Substantially less counter measures

Large Caliber countermeasures has 5 more times effectiveness compare to regular ones, especially Chaff.

@An Pigeon

worse gun

Gun itself has better damage output, it only has much less ammunition capacity.

@An Pigeon

worse radar

It has TWS modes which greatly increases your awareness, tho in other parts Eagle’s radar better.

@An Pigeon

The R27ERs were made relatively obsolete by the height of multipathing back then.

People loves to bring this as an excuse but that’s not true, even when multipath height was higher it was the most effective SARH out there.

@An Pigeon

The AIM7Ms are not bad at all,

They are trash compared to 27ER.

@An Pigeon

mach4 is still extremely fast

Which doesn’t reach that speed unless you fire at high alt.

@An Pigeon

The R27ER are also SARH only? What are you on about lol, they have IOG sure but that does not mean the same as ARH.

It also pulls significantly harder than Sparrows which makes them almost impossible to dodge, not to mention IOG makes huge difference when it comes to tracking and you can basically unlock the missile and keep guiding it until terminal phase then lock onto enemy plane and surprise it.

ITs basically first gen ARH missile in that case.

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

Gun itself has better damage output, it only has much less ammunition capacity.

An Pigeon:

Worse velocity as well as ammo count.
Id rather 500 tounds of 20mm vulcan than what 150 of 30mm.

@Panther2995

Large Caliber countermeasures has 5 more times effectiveness compare to regular ones, especially Chaff.

Be that as it may, due to how warthunder works even regular CM over perfrom massively meaning the fact the F15A has what 240 is it? 120 each compared to su27s mediocre 60 or 90 is a huge difference, even if the large ones are more effective.
The sheer volume the 15A has gives it the advantage.

@Panther2995

It has TWS modes which greatly increases your awareness, tho in other parts Eagle’s radar better

Im.sorry but the TWS modes are effectively useless as they used to give off bad readings, not sure about now.

The radar by all accounts is a detriment.

@Panther2995

People loves to bring this as an excuse but that’s not true, even when multipath height was higher it was the most effective SARH out there.

Most effective of a useless missile is still a useless missile.
The R73s were the advantage due tk the HMD and the thrust vectoring.
However they had tbeir own issues due to spinning out when the platform was too slow.

@Panther2995

They are trash compared to 27ER.

An Pigeon:

Trash? No.
They are worse sure that’s irrefutable but they are not trash at all.
4x Aim7M is still great to have.

@Panther2995

Which doesn’t reach that speed unless you fire at high alt.

I have no idea what you’re quoting here it’s showing my entire message.
On mobile so maybe why.

@Panther2995

It also pulls significantly harder than Sparrows which makes them almost impossible to dodge,

Im.sorry what ? You can notch the R27ER extremely easily and always have been able to.

@Panther2995

not to mention IOG makes huge difference when it comes to tracking and you can basically unlock the missile and keep guiding it until terminal phase then lock onto enemy plane and surprise it.

Again no ones disputing if the R27ER is better than the 7M at any point.
Just the gaps no where near as large as was made out.

@Panther2995

ITs basically first gen ARH missile in that case

Not by any means is it a first gen ARH.
First gen arh is pheonix.
It has to be active radar homing to be classified as ARH lol.

It’s an IOG designed missile same as the damn 7P.

[BabySoEz]

@H_ngma Once again, i’m tired boss

[IHаteCAS]

You and H_ngma can talk once you’ve played them.

[An_Pigeon]

Tired of what.

The T80 U is at 11.7 where it needed a reload buff to be competitive, it’s up against the likes of thr M1A1 which rofl stomps it easily.

Providing its two equally skilled players.

The T80B had for hears a 7.1 second reload while.most 10.7 nato.MBTS had 6 or 6.4 expert.
Had comparable mobility but it’s armour even for a T80 wasn’t great.

The T80UD was as Ive said under BRd that i won’t debate.
Then ofc the BVM which has a near 1.4 second slower reload than most top tier mbts aced reloads and 1.1 seconds slower reload compared to expert.

As well as most top tier nations having acxess to dm53 the armours no where near as effective.

T72s suck tbh

This is speaking from having literally all tbe russian MBTs and choosing chinese over them

[Panther2995]

@An Pigeon

The sheer volume the 15A has gives it the advantage.

It doesnt.

You need to deploy 3 chaff in order to defeat regular ARH missiles while single large caliber can effectively confuse seeker with one deploy.

So in practice F-15 only has 40 deploy.

@An Pigeon

Im.sorry but the TWS modes are effectively useless as they used to give off bad readings, not sure about now.

HDN mode works pretty fine and regular mode works quite consistent at 25km.

@An Pigeon

Most effective of a useless missile is still a useless missile.

In that case sparrow becomes even more useless, your logic doesn’t make sense.

@An Pigeon

Trash? No.
They are worse sure that’s irrefutable but they are not trash at all.
4x Aim7M is still great to have.

The are objectively trash compare to 2ER, trying to praise Sparrow isn’t gonna change its nature.

The only sparrow that can be called decent is the 7P due to having IOG just like 27ER.

@An Pigeon

I have no idea what you’re quoting here it’s showing my entire message.
On mobile so maybe why.

Was talking about Sparrows speed, it can only reach Mach-4 at high alt and at certain scenarios.

@An Pigeon

Im.sorry what ? You can notch the R27ER extremely easily and always have been able to.

Did I say notching? I clearly stated that 27ER pulls much harder than Sparrows which makes it much deadlier especially in close to medium range and even if you managed to notch flanker can always lock you back and use IOG advantage to kill you.

@An Pigeon

Just the gaps no where near as large as was made out.

It is, just because you refuse to believe it doesnt mean its false.

27ER is so good in terms kinematic and seeker performance it can basically challenge first gen ARH missiles in BVR.

@An Pigeon

First gen arh is pheonix.
It has to be active radar homing to be classified as ARH lol.

It’s an IOG designed missile same as the damn 7P.

Seems like you didn’t understood the reference.

Welp.

[Wtty]

@Panther2995

Seems like you didn’t understood the reference.

Thats like saying an axe is a shovel because you can dig with an axe in theory.

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

It doesnt.

You need to deploy 3 chaff in order to defeat regular ARH missiles while single large caliber can effectively confuse seeker with one deploy.

1 no you do not at all, you can do it notching and ping one.

• 2 have you completely ignored my point of talking that it’s when the F15A released, not now.
  I am not talking VS ARH missiles.

• 3 I have used the F15A at top tier and it has more than enough pops at top tier SU27s I’ve seen run out countless times.

@Panther2995

HDN mode works pretty fine and regular mode works quite consistent at 25km.

An Pigeon:

The TWS used to give off bad readings, again my entire point is based off of back when these planes were introduced and got preferential treatments not now.
Well now again as the F15A is gonna be the same BR as the objectively worse mig29

@Panther2995

In that case sparrow becomes even more useless, your logic doesn’t make sense.

An Pigeon:

the original point being that four aim7ms are better than 2 x r27ers on the mig29 my point about su27 was that it was literally carried by the missile loadout, more so the R73s than 27ERs but they were definitely better than the aim7m when on the su27.

The original comparison which you seem to have missed is that the F15A is now again being put to the same BR as a plane which is objectively worse purely due to players not know how to fly it.

@Panther2995

The are objectively trash compare to 2ER, trying to praise Sparrow isn’t gonna change its nature.

The only sparrow that can be called decent is the 7P due to having IOG just like 27ER.

im sorry the 7P is not just decent, it is a fantastic missile it’s litteraly the 2nd best SARH in game followed by the 7M then the 27R

@Panther2995

Was talking about Sparrows speed, it can only reach Mach-4 at high alt and at certain scenarios.

An Pigeon:

rodger that, the R27ER however -.- has had a report open on it’s speed being too high for a while.

@Panther2995

Seems like you didn’t understood the reference.

Welp.

I understand the reference you tried to make, however as I said it wasn’t and isn’t an early type of ARH due to when the damn R27ER went into service lol in the 1990s compared ot the first ARH being 1974

@Wtty

Thats like saying an axe is a shovel because you can dig with an axe in theory.

exactly my point xD it’s a silly comparison which has no relevance to how either the IOG system functions NOR the ARH system functions as they’re distinct of one another.

[Flanker_Thunder]

@An Pigeon

Su 27 when it released had

here we go

@An Pigeon

Worse FM by a long, long shot.

while having more thrust and better maneuverability

@An Pigeon

Substantially less counter measures

exchanged by large caliber countermesures which are WAY better than normal countermesures

@An Pigeon

worse gun

but bigger and way more lethal

@An Pigeon

worse radar

RAM vs. TWS
also when u were able of firing ur AIM-7M at the Su-27, it was already capable of firing his R-27ER which was way more probable of hitting u before ur Sparrow was even near of the Flanker, and/or the Flanker could fire an R-27ER to the F-15A, notch, and then recover the lock (which the F-15 can’t).

@An Pigeon

Sure it had HMD but the F15A still absolutely dogged it.

ofc HMD doesn’t make the Su-27 any better against the highly superior F-15A! (sarcasm…).

@An Pigeon

The R27ERs were made relatively obsolete by the height of multipathing back then.

and AIM-7M wasn’t obsolete by the height of the multipathing back then too? did it have some kind of clutter filter to make it hit a target flying at 50m of the ground? i completely don’t understand ur point.

@An Pigeon

The AIM7Ms are not bad at all, mach4 is still extremely fast only beaten by the R27ER and aspide, which sucks.

(completely ignoring that both R-27ER and Aspide-1A are way faster and MORE maneuverable)

@An Pigeon

The R27ER are also SARH only? What are you on about lol, they have IOG sure but that does not mean the same as ARH.

so now u’re bringing ARH to the discussion? weren’t we talking about old times and SARH missiles? also IOG is extremely useful compared to the poor AIM-7M which didn’t have.
and don’t make me make DL enter the conversation.

@An Pigeon

my KD is still maintained at about 1.0 for ARB with the F15A , i also used it as cas for a long time as i absolutely love how it flies.

good for u, i still keep a 1.1 air frags in the Su-27, but playing it is hard when u have R-77 and AIM-120 around 13.3.

@An Pigeon

it was fine at 13.0, it has enough counter measures to sustain itself, is it fun? No nothing without ARH missiles is fun when uptiered into them.

i didn’t say it wasn’t fair at 13.0, i said if u knew how to play it at 13.0, it was very good (tho it still gets 13.7 uptiers even at it’s new BR 12.7).

@An Pigeon

the mig29 is worse than the 15A in every way bar the 2 R27ERs and even then id still rather 4 X aim7M with a better radar.

i wasn’t talking about MiG-29, and i prefer having good missiles and bad radar to launch them at the perfect distance my radar can actually get a good hard-lock than having bad missiles and a good radar i can’t use cuz my missiles are so bad that launching them at the max distance my radar can hard-lock would be criminal.

@An Pigeon

The F15A is literally competitive in every scenario the su27 is.

Su-27 fits better for 13.0/13.3, F-15A fits quite decently at 13.0 (especially if we keep in mind it’s a goddamn speed racer and has 240CM).

[Armen_Lozone]

only russian vehicle that really needs a buff is the Su-17M4. it needs its RWR buffed lol

[БЕИ]

@IHаteCAS

You and H_ngma can talk once you’ve played them.

Both are trash so no point, it turns out that one of them actually played a russian bias vehicle which is the indian t-90

You can put up a challenge by offering NATO mains who can complete the following challenge:

Conditions:
1: >100 matches on any t-series mbts
2: Much greater KD (>1.0) than non-t-series vehicles they had played

If the conditions are fully met, the winner will receive:
[10,000 golden eagles/ one private dance at the strip club]

^ You can bet none of the bustas in that Necron’s list can achieve it. Remember that an idiot with a tool is still an idiot lol

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

@БЕИ

1: >100 matches on any t-series mbts
2: Much greater KD (>1.0) than non-t-series vehicles they had played

Leo 2 PL: 2.72KDR
T-80UE1: 4.15 KDR

pay up

Ofc this is sarcastic asf. The 2PL stats are so old I had to be careful not to be cursed by some ancient spell while digging them up
Still meets the conditions though ^^

[BabySoEz]

@БЕИ

Both are trash so no point, it turns out that one of them actually played a russian bias vehicle which is the indian t-90

I mean you could utilize the third left brain cell to understand how 10.7 work
Bring T90-S to the game to eat ATGMs from the BMPTs and one-death leave teammate doesn’t know how to control the line. Ofc you mostly play 10.7 with RU for easier life eh as the Dev intended
Only a child craving on being META on every game it touch
Go talk to me until your brain has been fully developed kid.

[BabySoEz]

@AspectOfTheRAGE

Leo 2 PL: 2.72KDR
T-80UE1: 4.15 KDR

I mean a kid from second grade can understand basic math
BTW that UE1 net camo convenient cover the turret to prevent scalping - very frustrate to fight even with more bushes.

[БЕИ]

@AspectOfTheRAGE

Leo 2 PL: 2.72KDR
T-80UE1: 4.15 KDR

pay up

Hnnnnnnngggghhhhh nice stats bro but you disqualified! you have >5KD on swedish Leopard 2

But I do tryna send some just because you are one of the NATO mains that could actually play ru vehicle (not because of bussian rias exist)

@Necronomica Are there any other ways? last time I could send it to anybody bro

[BabySoEz]

What a phony stat padder, cope more kid

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

dont worry about it.
No need to give me anything really, given that I hella cherrypicked examples.

I do appreciate the effort though

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@Caernarvon02

Is that why you have a very good K/D

~0.9-1.05 is comsidered good?

[_Renzo]

The Bishma is really solid at 10.7 wdym?

I think you are part of the cannon fodder teammates that don’t manage to hold the line.

Britain 10.7 is pretty goated.

[BabySoEz]

Just got a nuke the 2 days ago at 10.3 in a Non-RU lobby
Went to 10.7 … BMPT everywhere …what’s goated?