Russian top tier tanks need a fair buff

Game Discussion General Discussion
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Imo, Russia is probably one of if not the best nations in top tier, with actually a large amount of highly competitive tanks in top tier.

I mean for a start you have the BMPT (admittedly, a tank destroyer), the recently buffed T-72, the new T-72B3A, the T90M, the T80BVM, and then you could probably make a case for the T-80U. All of those tanks have crazy over performing ERA, insanely good guns, (looking at you, T-72 at 11.0), and not bad mobility. The drawback of the reverse speed is almost nullified by the fact that once hull down, in a few of them you are un-killable, and also shouldn’t really be over extending anyway.
Russia also a has a couple pretty decent SPAA options, being the Panstir and the BUK.
Not to even mention the CAS.

Sure they might sometimes perform bad, but remember other nations have it worse. The Abrams has an a-historical turret ring and basket, the leopard should technically have a 3-4s reload when aced, the Type90 should have a marginally faster reload, and the challengers should have much better armour than present at the moment.

So it might seem like Russian tanks have weakness, but other nations have it even worse.

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Ooooofff the cope is real lol BMPT Russian bias 😆

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Not really.

Last I checked 1 semi-competitive tank isn’t a large amount.

Which one? The B3? Still pretty bad at 11.3 because the BR change didn’t change its flaws.

Joke of a tank, an 11.3 at 12.3.

A terrible vehicle that’s been fearmongered out of this universe.

No.

That saves them once in 20 times.

Some of the worst firepower at their respective BRs.

The 11.0 T-72s still have an incredibly awful reload. Tanks with better firepower can be found at lower BRs as well.

Here’s a mobility chart

Spoiler

image

The only RU tanks with good turrets are 90A and 90M, and they HEAVILY struggle to go hull down. Reverse speed is also 100% an issue no matter what map you’re on.

You haven’t played these RU tanks, so I wouldn’t think you’d know.

No nation has it worse in terms of tanks. Having played all 10 nations, RU’s tanks are at rock bottom.

And yet it is still the best or 2nd best tank at every BR its at.

What the fck. NO.

No. Terrible for the game.

They’re not lacking much armor, just spall liner coverage.

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I am uncertain as to which T-72 it is, but one was recently buffed, and also moved down in BR at the same update, i believe it was one of the ones that is now at 10.3

The T-72B3A has no justification to go anywhere below 12.0, let alone 11.3, it has an extremely strong turret, a really good round (Keep in mind there are nato tanks with worse rounds, at higher BRs), and better mobility than a lot of its peers.

The T90M is actually really good, sure it might be overhyped but its still exceptionally strong. It has really good frontal armour, with the exception of the LFP it its pretty much unkillable from the front to anything it faces with APFSDS.

Your point does not matter if it saves them every time or once in a trillion years. The ERA that is present in game, has values that are above what has been seen in real life. Sure you could adjust it and move them down in BR, but right now it makes it unkillable to ATGMs, and cannot be penetrated on the UFP, turret ring of glacis.

No, the russian tanks do not have weak guns. The 3BM60 is extremely strong, and is a lot better than a lot of the tanks it can face. For example, the best round on the challenger 2 black night, is the L27A1 with 560mm of penetration. The 3BM60 is about 20mm better than that, and is present on russian tanks at a low a BR as 11.0 meaning it has better rounds than tanks 1.7 BR above it. Keep in mind, it also has a strong ATGM.

The 11.0 T-72 is probably one of the best tanks at its BR, not questions about it. It has a good round, an active protection system, Good optics, good thermals and sure, the reload might not be optimal, but its still pretty good, especially considering its a-historically buffed.

See how on the speed chart you linked, every single British tank is ranked at the bottom (Bar the 2e)? See how, there are Russian tanks which outperform nato tanks, for example the T80BVM is faster than the Leopard 2a4, 2a5, m1a2 sep, strv 122aetc etc?

Actually, a lot of russian tanks have good turrets when compared to tanks like the Challenger 2 and 3, the Abrams series and the ztz series.

A lot of other nations do have it worse actually, the british, the french, the italians and arguably the chinese to name a few. The challenger has terrible speed and no armour to make up for it, the leclercs are made of wet cardboard, the arriete is paper thin with no speed to make up for it, and the ztz series is like poking holes through a peice of cloth.

The abrams is only good because it has an exceptionally good round, take it away theres nothing left.

There is actually clips of the leopard and abrams crews, at there absoloute best, (which is what aced is btw) reloading in under 4s. I cannot find them now, but with enough effort im sure you could.

Yes, I agree, the type90 having a faster reload would be terrible for the game, but gaijin seems to have no problem doing it for russia. Look at the BMPTs, since their addition, the win rate of Russia has gone up a significant amount, their k/d is something like 2.5 or some crazy stuff, and its absolutely destroyed the match maker. Queuing with Russia can take like, minutes.

You said I have not played russia, but I have. My other account for my other house is something like, (this was having a jab at my south african friend) ‘ihatesouthafrica’. Check it if you want, I have 12.7 russia.

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No. It was the T-72B3 that went down from 11.7 to 11.3.

What? Lmfao. Its turret is pretty trash and its worse in tank vs tank than T-72B3 which is at 11.3. Also, better rounds are found at 11.7 on M1A1 for example. You have not a damn clue what you’re talking about.

I’m sure you would know, considering you haven’t played it.

No? As I said, M829A1 is found at 11.7, DM53 at 11.7, M829A2 at 12.0, the list goes on.

M322 is found at 10.0 with 590mm of pen. Do you think that’s OP? The ATGM is useless aside from overpressuring.

I’m sure you would know, as you haven’t played it. The reload is not a-historically buffed, its a-historically NERFED. Its a horrible tank, being slower than the likes of the Challenger 2 OES.

Not my fault the British can’t design a fast tank.

The T-80BVM has mobility worse than 2A4, on par with 2A5, and Abrams/Leo only lag behind by 1s.

Completely false.

France, Italy, and China are definitely better than Russia. The Brits are the only ones who have it worse really, and i’m glad because British players are probably worse than US players in terms of being completely insufferable.

Turret armor? Mobility? Ammo stowage? Gun handling? Reverse? Utility? Shell types? Sights? Gun angles? The list goes on.

Those are training sims where the gun does not have to reset to a loading position, set to a firing position, includes lap loading, and the blast door is also left open. Not a good example. The Leo 2 manual literally states the loading time for Leo 2 being 8.6s or 7 shots per minute.

Sure. So we’re admitting to TOS breaks now.

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See, here you read my post, saw a lot of my points, and then didnt even acknowledge them?

Your point on the leopard taking 8.6s to reload, seeing as your arguing that im sure you know that for a russian tank to reload, at any degree of gun drepression or elevation it has to reset to 0, which can take a second or two, and to switch ammo types it can take 13s +? The russian 6.0s reload is unreasonable, as on average it should either have to make you reset any gun depression or elevation, or haver to take upwards of 7-8s And there is actual footage of crews on the challenger 2, leopard, and abrams loading faster than the ace time.

Also, considering some of the names I have seen in game, I dont think gaijin cares the slightest about what your username is. But ill humour you, can change it back to what it originally was.

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I did but oh well.

My point was not that Leo should take that long to reload. My point was that reload is a balancing factor. The 6s reload is also not unreasonable, and cycling/shell types would be a pain in the butt for both manual and auto loaders. The elevation reset is already accounted for in a lot of our AUTOLOADER reload times, like on Type 90/10, T-72s/90s, and T-80s i’m not sure. Leclerc should also reload in 6s as quoted by GIAT, but it reloads in 5 in-game for balance.

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Well, you didnt. For some of my points you just straight up insulted me instead of using logic. For example, when responding to my claim that other nations have it worse, you just said ‘x y and z are better, c is worse and they deserve it’. and then on another point you just said “Completely false” with no more explanation

On the abrams, only the reverse and gun depression are noticeably better. All else is nullified by the fact that they can just look at your and shoot, there is no real need to aim because there is gaping weakspots.

I have played the T-90M, I told you that already.

Yes, I admit that rounds like the m829a1 can be found earlier in the tech tree, but the tanks they are found on often act like glass cannons. Same with the DM53 on the ariette for example. And there are tanks with much worse rounds, like the japanese jm and the british l27.

The t80bvm doesnt have worse mobility, its better, look at the chart.

If you want to talk about balancing factor, shall we talk about the unkillable bmpt, the black hole brs of 11.3-12.3, the kh missile series, the tanks being added at 11.3 that should be at 11.7 or higher? The list just goes on my dude

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Genuinely if not russia who then? The only other trees with the same competitiveness across the entire spectrum of top tier ground are France and Japan. All the others are lacking in one way or another.

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Is france really that competetive? I don’t have france personally, but it seems like every time I play against them, they get clapped by even weak shells like the L26. The leclercs seem to be made of like, carboard, and the EBRC jaguar has become basically obselete with the addition of the bmpt. It seems to me that the only reason france is good is because the players are.

Japan is good, ill give you that

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France, USA, Sweden, China, and Germany have better top tiers if we disregard the playerbase.

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Going by these comments I’m now convinced you’ve never played the T-72B3(A).

T-72B3A should’ve been 11.7 on release, at 12.3 it’s quite possibly the most overtiered MBT across any nation at top-tier.

Your justifications for keeping it overtiered make absolutely no sense on any level:

  1. Turret armour is identical to a T-72B '89 which sits at 10.3 and it still incredibly mediocre. Clearly that’s not a reason to keep it above 11.7.
  2. 2S25 at 10.0 has 3BM-60 and also isn’t anything special, again, not a reason to keep the vehicle above 11.7.
  3. Sabra Mk.I, M60 120S, M60 AMBT, etc. are all vehicles with superior penetration (and reload) compared to the T-72B3A whilst they are sitting at significantly lower BR’s.
  4. Mobility of the T-72B3A is bordering on poor. Almost everything at or below it’s BR is significantly more mobile, that includes a 10.7 T-80B or any of the T-80U derivatives. I have no idea what gave you the false impression that the T-72B3’s are actually highly mobile MBT’s.

More evidence you’ve never played these vehicles.

T-90M is among the absolute worst 12.7’s in the entire game and there’s no reason why it should be a higher BR than an M1A2.

Now I’m convinced you’ve never touched an Abrams either.
Why are you commenting on all of these vehicles which you know nothing about?

If you reduce an M1’s penetration it’s still one of the most mobile MBT’s in the entire game with the shared best gun handling characteristics and the 2nd fastest reload.

Refer to the chart I linked above.
T-80BVM has average mobility. The only reason the T-80BVM ends up in the left half of the chart is because I happened to rank it based on acceleration to 45 km/h.

Firstly: Breaking EULA, could end up with both accounts banned.

Secondly: Ah yes the classic ‘‘My other account’’ excuse.

Thirdly: Everything you’ve said so far indicates to me you’ve not played these vehicles, otherwise you would not have been so poorly informed on all of them.

And lastly: Let’s assume for the moment I believe the claim, that account has a T-90M with a 0.7 K/D and 0.68(!) K/spawn ratio. Yet here you are trying to tell me the T-90M is incredible?!

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you are setting yourself up for disappointment

truth be told, if you really know what you are doing, reverse speed does not come into play that often, and if it does, it means you usually screwed up seconds ago

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Completely false.

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France has the second best CAS and a SAM on par with the Buk

Other than that Leclerc are decent but nothing to write home about, and Jaguar is just very sotuational

So i would tend to agree @H_ngma , it’s solid in every category, but not stellar in any particular one

Jack of all trades, master of none kind of situation

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The player that claims reverse speed doesn’t come into play often has never played high tier Russia.

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you! /s

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A first shot will usually disable the engine or the driver rendering your reverse speed useless

If it doesn’t, chances are you were in hull down, in which case russian tanks are mostly safe, and 4s (in case you are against a japanese tank), are enough to retreat behind a hill

Someone getting caught with its pants down and relying on reverse speed usually forgot to properly use the binos beforehand though.
Personal experience of course, but i did not notice it changing my gameplay all that much, from vehicles with great reverse speed (Leclerc, Jaguar) to the ones with poor reverse speed (T-55A, T-62, AMX-13s)

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Russian tanks are fine as they are. Their ERA over-performs and damage to the turret ring doesn’t prevent turret rotation like hitting an Abrams or Leopard does. They don’t need any nerf but they certain don’t need a buff.

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The T-72B3A should be 12.0, I think thats where it would comfortably sit. Using Gaijins own logic, from putting the challenger 2 BN a whole BR higher as of getting an active protection system, the B3A should as well. It also gets Kontact 5, which is a lot better than its predecessors. The turret, while penetrable in some spots by high powered rounds from the likes of the leopard, is still a buggy volumetric mess, and is inpenetrable to some weaker rounds like the ones present on the challenger and type 90 b fuji.

You said the turret is identical to the '89, this is true. I think the 89 should be at about 10.7 not 10.3, but here we are anyway.
Some (Not all I must admit) of the tanks you mentioned are more just like glass cannons, with a strong round and reload, but not great armour nor speed.
Not everything at its BR has better mobility. Notably the british challenger 1s are slow, with about the same armour. That being said the challenger 1s do get semi-decent rounds.
Even lower BR T-72s are on par with higher BR tanks when it comes to mobility, once again the british challengers.

You said the T90M is among the worst 12.7s in the game, I disagree. When played to its strengths, the T90M, is one of the best, only second to perhaps the leopard. It is an exceptional brawler, and only really struggles on the massive maps like fire arc, and even then there are spots which seem almost engineered to make use of the fact that the turret on the T90M is really strong. Trying to shoot the breach of a T90, has atleast in my experience, often resulted in some crazy stupid volumetric moment where it like yellows it or something. Especially when comparing this to tanks like the Abrams where it can just go straight through, you begin to see what I mean.

I admit I have not played the abrams that much, they didnt really fit my playstyle. I found that they were fast yes, but you had to be a lot more careful with them than some other tanks like the russian ones. However, the abrams suffers from a-historical nerfs like the turret basket being attached to the horizontal drive, (for balance reasons) have a weak aced reload, and straight up missing armour on the turret ring and turret cheeks. Like any other tank, when played to its strengths its strong, but its harder to do so than say the T90 or the Leopard.

When naming the account, I didnt really consider gaijins EULA, as it was just a joke between some friends. I have now renamed it in accordance with the EULA, and if you don’t believe its me I may be able to message you in a day or so.
I have played most of the top teir that is currently in game, apart from the Italian ariette, the french leclerc, and the isreali merkavas.

A lot of people playing the T90 dont kow how to play it to its strengths, and will just try and sit back and then get outsniped by NATO mbts, then complain when they are not immortal. The T90 is extremely strong, and can outgun and up armour most of its peers.

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Yeah thats probably true. I’m around mid teir at the moment, is there any real justification of going past there is it not worth it in your opunion?