Russian Bias in 2025?

Machinery of War Discussion
2249

@tensilaspider
On top of that, did you claim there was German, Swedish, and French bias when they had 12km SPAA?
If the answer is no, then you should be consistent with the USSR as well.
The answer was no for me because my standard is can the SPAA frag a CAS player playing competently using the best weapons available.
If the answer is no, then the SPAA is pointless. If the answer is yes, then the SPAA is good or in some cases over-powered.
And the answer for Pantsir was the same for ITO-90M: No. A player playing Su-34, F-15E/I, Rafale, etc competently has no risk of dying to Pantsir or ITO-90M.

The primary reason why Gaijin didn’t think SPAA was necessary was because CAS players were never threatened by top CAS to begin with and thus played recklessly.

Also Me-163 is not just 0.3 better than BI, it’s easily 1.0 higher due to altitude ceiling [tied to speed, speed, fuel, and weapons. BI is a rocket A6M5, Me-163 is a rocket P51H5NA.

@Flogger_cbs
There are at least 5 9.3 tanks superior to T-72A: Leopard L/44, Leopard 1A5, CM11, Khalid, Gal Batesh, Olifant Mk2…

Also, my posts have only ever said that X-38/Kh-38 are superior missiles in-game to AGM-65s in a direct comparison.
So I can only assess that you’re inventing fan-fiction about me instead of addressing my actual statements.

So either prove that Kh-38 and AGM-65 are equal, or agree with me that in a direct comparison Kh-38 is superior.

I used the Kh-38, I know the differences, which is why I always stated that missile v missile Kh-38 is superior in-game currently; and that both AGM-65G and Kh-38 are equally effective against tanks back when the maximum engagement range of SPAA was 16km. Of course equally effective does not mean they have equal traits.
All you know is to defend Russia.

1 Like
2250

If you think zoom level doesn’t mean shit, that’s why you are not successful in any type of vehicle you have played, not even the T-72 to be honest.

2251

Well, in any case, I was just pointing out that in real life, the Ka-52’s systems don’t work the way they do in the game. By the way, the Pantsir’s real-life systems are also much worse than what Gaijin simulated. For example, its operator can’t distinguish a fairly large aircraft from a drone at 7 km, and on top of that, can’t shoot it down with the first hit, even if the target isn’t maneuvering. How it could intercept a salvo of six Mavericks — I have no idea.

2252

I just checked in the game — only the Gal Batash and the MBT-70 have more zoom than the T-72; for the rest of the tanks on the list, it’s 8.0x. Can you explain to me what the f**k?

2253

I was gonna go and look at the 8 or so updates between the ito and pantsir to see what the best cas was during that time. But i do somewhat agree with you here.
Though strangely, the ito had a 2 year reign as well before the pantsir came. Though the outcry wasn’t as loud about that spaa. (Even looking through the 2021-2023 timeline on google i cant find much)

The bi’s a combination of an f104 at high speeds and an a6m5 at lower speeds. Basically able to hunt and kill any target from 6.7-9.0 that isn’t supersonic. Only held back by low fuel, that can last about 10 minutes with a competent player. It again, should be 8.3 minimum sense its like you said, a rocket a6m5. Or at the very least, all rocket planes get their actual fuel efficiency. (Bi’s would literally only have 1 minute to fight, which “might” be a reason to have it fight props.)

If its alright, Can i check the origin post you guys were arguing on? (Not gonna join, just wanna see whats happening over there)

2254

And you are arcade player and liar saying that i play only soviet tech is just blatant lie.

You got 2.6 K/D in MBT-70, 2.5 K/D in Leopard L/44, 2.4 K/D in Chieftain mk.10 and 2.2 K/D in T-72A.
And now we go to Statshark

Spoiler

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All of them performing better than “OP” T-72A

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And if you will say that main nation will attract less capable player then ill show this Italians stats on T-72M1

Spoiler

86786786

They are one of the best players in statistics so you lied again like with DM-63 and Type1985 need to go for weak spots T-72A is not OP it’s your own bias.

1 Like
2255

Exactly, when ITO-90 was first introduced no one really complained, even though it pushed air to ground launch ranges to over 12km.
Pantsir pushed air to ground launch ranges to over 14km, then over 16km in late 2024 when it was buffed. Yet only it gets attention despite it doing nothing other than pushing back launch range.
Harrier GR7 was 2022 which is when I started using it myself.
There was LGBU CAS such as Jag, Mig-27K, etc as well.

And with CLAWS, Spyder, SLM… launch ranges get destroyed, and low altitude terrain following becomes the necessity.

1 Like
2256

I think (From what i can remember) the reason why everyone focused the pantsir is because it was combined with the best ground munition along with a very decent line up while everyone else didn’t have any counterparts? (This was when the m1a2 was top dog being the only 12.0 for usa? along with the leclerc, challenger 2 and type 10?)

So it started off being top dog in the best TT at the time, Basically pushing the “ussr is best” thought process. And it just never really died down. (Even though the snail had so many chances to shift the perspective and stop it) (will respond in bout 24 hours, maybe)

2257

USA I was using M1A1s with the M1A2, granted that wasn’t my CAS lineup at the time, Britain was.
I’d use Chally 2s and Harrier GR7 even with Pantsir still around, and until the late 2024 buff to Pantsir, Harrier GR7 was a safe use.

People focused too much on the 11.7s of Soviets while ignoring the 11.7s others had that were perfectly capable of getting spawn points for CAS, or in USA’s case having better 11.7s than everyone else.

I understand that people preferred to play within 12km with their CAS.
I understand that Soviets got something OP to stand with the other OP giants of CAS.
I understand all that.

Then the win rates started falling… for the Soviets. Cause once you do the math on spawn point cost for CAS, even with 6 frags, you’re still worse off than 2 more tank spawns. It’s not until a 2nd successful sortie that you’re better than 4 more tank spawns if you play average in tanks. Less spawns if you play better in tanks.
That’s not even counting less tangible things like capturing zones, applying pressure to tank assaults.

And the narrative was its own thing that Gaijin themselves couldn’t stop.
USSR was never “the best” tech tree, as much as people may not like that I criticize it.
The best for grind speed? Japan.
The best MBT? Still USA and German.
The best light tanks are Chinese, American, and Swedish.
The best lineups are all at 9.3 which USA and USSR are more equal to each other than they are to Sweden, Israel, or Italy.
6.7 lineups are strong, which USSR and China are more equal to each other than they are to USA, Germany, Japan, and Italy.
And I stand by that there was no best SPAA the moment AGM-65Ds and better missiles were on Harrier and faster platforms until last major update.

And those bests aren’t “oh they’re vastly more powerful” it’s more “they offer things that give minor advantage for reckless plays”.

2258

There is also not 10% of whinig about IRIS-T compared to pantsir even though it’s way more broken then pantsir ever was.

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2259

I’m also a bit unclear why you would take so long to aim against something as simple to kill as a T-72A?

Sounds more like a you issue than a real balance issue.

2260

It’s not op lmao. If you struggle against a T-72A in a 9.3 tank that is just a skill issue.

2261

Wow, now that’s a crime!

If you mean TAB, that was a long time ago, back when the game was very different. And most of those battles were played before the T-72 was even in the game. What I was talking about in this thread is my current experience at 9.3 BR in GRB.

2262

write that the T-72 is one of the strongest tanks at 9.3, it’s much easier for me to play on it than on the other tanks

humu-humu, you just have some skill issues.

What’s wrong with these people?

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2263

Sorry if the truth hurts, but for a decent player tanks like the CM11, Leopard 1A5, Olifant Mk.2, OF-40 (MTCA), Gal Batesh etc. absolutely shit on the T-72A all day.

You can say that you prefer it, but saying it’s OP at 9.3 is hilarious.

3 Likes
2264

Ok.

2265

The problem would be when you face the T-72A and especially the T-72M1 with some Br 8.3s that still use APDS or HEAT-FS, even in the case of the T-72M1 some initial APDS-FS.
Against the CM11, Gal Batash and Leopard 2A5, the T-72A and M1 would be at a significant disadvantage if the game maps were well done and larger, since the CM11, Leopard 1A5 etc. are tanks that were upgraded to keep them in service, giving them aiming systems and calculators far superior to those of the T-72, in addition to carrying ammunition that would have no problem piercing even a T-80B.

2266

Its pretty amazing how easily all these people that see and post or discuss on media all these abnormal incidents about russian vehicles are turned into conspiracy theorists , subconsiously confirmation bias addicted , bad players , witch hunters, comedians etc just because they say what they see…

2267

They see what they wan’t to see if everything what human would feel was true then 5G towers would be a real menace, genders turn into real thing and we would sacrifice people and animals for better weather. To prove the existence of bias you need server data and statistical data all what one person could see is limited by keyhole and placebo effects.

1 Like
2268

Finally a point that we can agree…