It is best to squad up with like minded players… at times all you need is at least one good escort
Then play sim and shut up… Fighters don’t have mouse qim and you are won’t die as fast.
It was explained several times why this happens and you just ignore the explanation.
I’ve yet to hear a good explanation.
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Mouse aim!
If you hit 20% of all shots in a burst instead of 2% like in real life. Your damage output is 10 times higher and the bomber goes down 10 times faster.
If that isn’t a good explanation why bombers goe down way quicker in RB cpmpared to real life then you won’t accept any explanation.
If you compare WT to tests documents of the US on how much damage it takes to kill a fighter or bomber (using the p47 and b25) you’d see that compared to real life the WT DM is actually too beefy
And that explains the paper mache bombers, the neglect of bombers in general, the removal of base respawn, the removal of bomb victory and the useless gunners.
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Well yes and no. It shows they aren’t paper mache at all. But since you don’t even try to understand this seems to be lost on you.
Also the bomber DM was what was talked about and the entire argument in the beginning. You coming up with other issues afterwards is dishonest.
But lets adress them as well.
They aren’t neglected in general. They are neglected in specific cases, but not in general. Ccip wouldn’t exist otherwise.Do you even know what “in general” means? There are still places where bombers are OP.
So no not in general. If you wouldn’t be overly dramatic you would even have an argument… But you chose to be hysterical.
This is a mission design choice and gaijin didn’t have base respawn for most of it’s lifetime.
Sure but that is niw a combined victory of everything, si it’s not like bombing is useless.
This we also explained, player operated gunners are as effective as fighter operated weaponry of the same type. They aren’t useless.
The AI gunners are another matter, but they are linked with SB for some reason where 210m is plenty. AI gunners are always a difficult mattter as you are giving away kills for free basically and no skill is required. Hard to balance… At the moment gaijin seeems to want you do gun yourself.
Ccip wouldn’t exist otherwise.
CCIP is hardly a bomber feature as much as a feature for jets, and it’s just the arcade option enabled.
This is a mission design choice
RP reduction choice because people were actually get half decent RP, can’t have that.
it’s not like bombing is useless.
Now you have bombers just exist purely for personal gain, having Ju-288 ruin RB for 5 years wasn’t bad enough with removing the one possible win scenario.
This we also explained, player operated gunners are as effective as fighter operated weaponry of the same type. They aren’t useless.
A gunner is going to lose to a fighter almost every time, bar a few rare examples where they actually get a powerful tail gunner, which is just a fighter skill issue to engage it like that.
The AI gunners are another matter, but they are linked with SB for some reason where 210m is plenty.
Yeah, for some reason.
AI gunners are always a difficult mattter as you are giving away kills for free basically and no skill is required. Hard to balance… At the moment gaijin seeems to want you do gun yourself.
Bombers have plenty of deadzones and no other means to defend itself, with the only means of defense under specific circumstances made useless is ridiculous, it can at least try to shoot something, and if they want player controlled gunners than they need make that work properly.
Expecting players to defend themselves like this is stupid.
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But that is an issue of the design of the bomber itself and does reflect the real life power imbalance. So this is correct and exactly how it should be.
Might be because of programming. But AI gunners giving free kills in a shooter is kinda lame anyways.
Quite literally a feature just for bombers. As you said bombers are neglected in general this disproves your argument as false. You shouldn’t have said “in general” then. That’s on you.
Why? Bombers aren’t supposed to win air battles. They had these deadzones irl as well.
Btw fighters have much larger deadzones and can literally just shoot what is in front of them.
But that is an issue of the design of the bomber itself and does reflect the real life power imbalance. So this is correct and exactly how it should be.
In real life a bomber wouldn’t be send out on it’s own either to compensate for this, this is not reflected in game.
But AI gunners giving free kills in a shooter is kinda lame anyways.
It doesn’t have to be free kills, but actually posing a threat and requiring some strategy from a fighter seems fair enough.
Free kills for AI gunners is lame so now we have free kills for fighters instead.
Quite literally a feature just for bombers.
Bombers don’t have CCIP, modern jets do who can carry bombs.
Why? Bombers aren’t supposed to win air battles. They had these deadzones irl as well.
Btw fighters have much larger deadzones and can literally just shoot what is in front of them.
That’s why they had a lot of them and with protection from fighters as well.
Fighters aren’t limited in what direction they engage in, obviously.
Then gaijin should implement that bombers are only alloed in the queue in 4 player squads. That’s fine by me.
If you man gunners yourself it is fair. The power balance between fighter and bomber would be similar to real life. Not a free kill for the fighter but the fighter would have a significant advantage. As it should be. So as i said it seems fine.
F-111 isn’t a bomber? I am pretty sure one of it’s roles alwas strategic bomber.
Neither are bombers you can turn your plane to keep the fighter out of the deadzone in a similar fashion the fighter can keep you out of it’s weaponry deadzones.
You also already have fighters that can protect you. Instead of each bomber going for a different base you might want to stick together and wait for the fighters first. Those things can be solved by the players.
You shouldn’t get compensation for that. In those battles the bombers choose to not fly in formation or wait and ask for fighter cover.
Please explain what is the error … ?
Black Thursday - disastrous raid on Schweinfurt-Regensburg - 60 bombers shot down, another 100 badly damaged, many beyond repair, 550 USAF aircrew lost to further combat…
Damaged factories, their production quickly replaced…
The result - clearly German victory in this air battle
Black Tuesday over Namsi - Korea
21 B-29 bombers, approx. 200 USAF escort fighters against 56 MiG-15 fighters…
The result - 12 B-29 bombers destroyed beyond repair, others with varying degrees of damage, 1 MiG-15 shot down … not a single bomb fell on the Namsi airfield… an unequivocal victory for the air force of the DPRK/USSR and the B-29 bombers went down in history forever, respectively were intended only for night raids …
RAF - catastrophic losses in day bombing, forced switch to night bombing … throughout the war a British infantryman had a better chance of survival than a bomber crew…
Battle of Heligoland Bight 1939
22 Wellington vs. 44 Bf-109s
Result - 12 Wimpys destroyed vs. 2 Bf-109s, 57 crew Wimpys … retired forever vs. two Luftwaffe pilots … Target of the raid: the port of Wilhelmshafen with the ships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau undamaged …
An airstrike makes economic sense if the target is hit/destroyed and the bomber losses are minimal and the crews return to their own airfield, otherwise it is a clear failure …
To be honest this game mode shows everything that is wrong with bombers in WT.
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It really doesn’t.
There is a lot wrong with bombers in WT that isn’t visible in this event.
Let’s see “Officially, 34 B-29s were lost during the Korean War: 16 were destroyed by fighter aircraft, 14 by other causes, and four by anti-aircraft weapons”.
So you would be exaggerating the truth without taking the sheer amount of waste that was laid down. From the bombings. Oh no you got production back oh cool it won’t be in the same shape as it was before meaning it’s been significantly weakened and or delayed. Due to said damage which will involve repairs, constant maintenance as well as awareness that any moment something could fall.
Aside from that your nitpicking at specific battles rather than looking at the overall sheer devastation that was laid waste by bomber aircraft. In WW2 B-17s, B-25s, B-24, and even B-29s.
Most of it was severely devastated, if it wasn’t the roads were practically no longer usable by vehicles.
So you trying to make a narrative trying to claim “Bombers are useless or redundant” makes me chuckle when the statistics, and documentation prove otherwise.
When it comes to B-17s out of the 12,731 B-17s from 1936->1945. Only 4,735 were lost, this could have come from maintenance issues, flak fire, enemy aircraft, or the faulty crew(Super tired, slowly losing sanity, etc). This means over 7,997 there was probably even more in production just not in a complete state.
When it comes to the Korean War for B-29 1,623 so 34 being MIA is a minority in how many were destroyed. Let’s go to the Vietnam War 744 were produced only 18 were shot down by Vietnamese Air-to-air surface missile defenses. 12 were lost in other operational circumstances.
When you factor in which I’m not going to do the sheer amount of sorties that bombers flew, and the payloads they were carrying losing a few was nothing in comparison to how much destructive damage was dropped onto specific targets or entire cities that were functionally a giant factory.
We obviously don’t understand each other and we won’t understand each other.
While I was comparing the economic ratio of bomber raids in relation to the losses caused in the skies over Germany, here you are presenting me with B-29 raids over Japan and Korea. The air defense of Germany was significantly different in terms of air defense capabilities of the Defense of the Japanese Islands, both in terms of the quality of air personnel and the quality of aircraft and their quantity. Already in 1944 it was the twilight of Japan’s quality pilots, while the Luftwaffe still had a sufficient number of Experten and other pilots with good training from the past…
The last heavy bombers, or machines of a similar type, are owned by the USA and Russia, and they will never look over their targets again, unless the nations that have these machines have full air supremacy over the battlefield … but they will hit the target, using long-range guided munitions … even then it was a slaughterhouse, the kind of which today have no defense, and even then there were voices about the meaning of massive carpet bombing…
And finally, if I will not compare the destroyed civilian targets and cities, but take the German aircraft production, until the beginning of December 1944, the German industry did not have a significant problem with the production of fighters, but rather it was running out of human resources and gasoline
And specifically, I directed my post towards the air event, to the individual air battles that are taking place in the game these days, not from a strategic point of view…
If you read my post exactly, it is focused on how to help the bombers in the game, in air battles, I never, I repeat never, I said nonsense like “Bombers are useless or redundant” …
And that is the essence of this game here, if the bombers are to succeed significantly in the game, then under completely different conditions…
The primary objective of the fighter players should be to protect the bombers and the bomber box should be involved in the destruction of the whole factory, not that one bomber destroys one factory… These are the maps that are missing in the game, here the players play at altitude and there is only one objective , he doesn’t need to be distracted by the tactical variant of the map, where there are a lot of easy-to-reach ground Ai targets everywhere …
It doesn’t matter if it was Japan or Korea, Vietnam or Germany. My point still stands that bombing raids to the ratio of how many were lost is negligible which is the point i was making with what i wrote. Which you clearly did not read below and more or less skimmed though.
Hmm … there are things that we interpret differently, but basically I know where you are going …
Anyway, these raids, there was a big crusher on the aircrews …
And those who won are usually not blamed for anything right after the war, those who lost have no right to blame anyone, because the loss falls on everyone equally…
Well done in the game…