Combat Trainers are allowed however i’ll add a caveat for some of them since some of them can be added to the regular Air TT and do just fine. Same goes for some of the Maritime Patrol aircraft
As much as i love the Sea Master and jet powered flying boats in general it won’t be on this list. Even though Maritime Patrol is one of the roles the Sea Master can do it’s main role in the end of the day is Strategic bombing
Martin P5M-1 Marlin, a forgotten Beauty!
Very much overlooked the P5M served the USN from 1951 until the final Patrol flight of a SP-5B (P5M-2) by VP-40 in November 1967 which signalled the end of regular flying boat operations. The P5M-1, identifiable by its low set horizontal tail, would be my choice for inclusion as she would at least have a chance to ward off tail chasers by virtue of her rear turret that would later be replaced by the antenna for the AN/APN-122.
A once familiar sight as a P5M-2 gets hoisted aboard the Seaplane Tender USS Currituck (AV-7)
The P5M-2 was also operated by the French Navy in an attractive white over blue scheme. The lack of any defensive armament on this variant would make her rather less usable in WT though.
The S-3 Viking is so underrated man
Another possible aircraft would be the Thai GAF N22B Nomad.
It is listed on the Thai Aviation website as having one airframe (46126) with the “JL.9” designation, the J designating an attack aircraft. The same JL designation was used for Thai AC-47s (JL.2)
I have recently found this image of a Thai Nomad armed with a door mounted 20mm rotary cannon
There’s also this image of a 20mm rotary cannon mounted to the Nomad, which seems to line up with the Thai configuration and camouflage, though it might not be Thai.
That is a really good find
I keep finding references that the N22B Nomads can carry external payloads on the fuselage and wings but the only image i could find a GAF N22 with hardpoints is this image below of an Indonesian Naval Air Arm N-22 Nomad with a wing hardpoint
SA-18B Albatross
A ASW Floatplane variant of the HU-16 Albatross. It has 4 hardpoint that can mount rocketpods (including Zuni’s), HVAR’s, Depth Charges (up to 500Ibs), dumb bombs or 4 torpedoes
Even though it’s operated by the US. Greece and Norway also operated SA-18B Albatross
Greetings i come to perform necromancy!
I also didn’t quite see mention of the Scottish Aviation Bulldog 130/120 model 1210, a single improved bulldog made for the Air arm command of the Botswanna armed forces and was supposedly meant to be a light attack variant. though once again information is scarce.
The CJ-6B will be added as soon as I find images and/or schematics to see it’s weapon load. The Main reason why the 130 is not included is because of the lack of data. Not helped that judging from what we do know it would be too similar to the Bulldogs operated by the UK and several other countries (Malta and Lebanon)
The M-28 will be on the list soon. I need to find more info, particularly any loadouts (if they have any) on the earlier versions since they were used as Maritime patrol aircraft
Massive Update:
There’s also a couple of vehicles that are suggested that will unfortunately will not get an entry
Hey,
I just read your post and here are some of my opinions and feedback.
First I think these aircraft have merit to be added to the game, but the handling around them needs to be reevaluated (to prevent situations like GRB right after the addition of the Pucara).
Even if we like them, they have, in my opinion, nothing to do in mixed battles. As you mentioned, they are completely impossible to balance correctly, and if more get added, they will either simply obliterate the battlefield for the most modern ones or be completely useless for the oldest ones.
They could possibly find their place in ARB as attackers but they might suffer a lot from their BRs. If more modern ones have A2A armament, solutions would be to either : remove it (sadly) to make them fit at a lower bracket, or to restrict it to its least op version. BUT, like most of us know, air realistic battles are not made for COIN aircraft in general because of its extremely high PVP tendencies.
That’s why I think that if they get added to the game, making a gamemode specifically designed for them could be nice to have. I have some rough ideas about what they could look like :
The Infantry kill streak way : One way of adding them to the game without much balancing pressure would be to integrate them to the upcoming infantry modes, as a sort of kill streak like helicopters, but at a way higher spawn cost (around 1500 points). They would be filling their roles while still being relatively easy to take out by the enemy team (with guns, AA emplacements, vehicles or manpads)
The Air EC way : One way to make them fun to play would be to have a Air Enduring Confrontation mode centered around light CAS, a bit in the same vibe as Nuclear escalation, but without all the nuke stuff. The objective would be to make your team progress by fulfilling CAS missions to help ground AI units to progress on the battlefield. Tasks could for example be : destroying enemy blockades, destroying lightly armored positions, attack supply lines (convoys or depots), etc. all while defending your side. There would be AA guns to defend positions. There could even be, let’s ba crazy, photo reconnaissance missions that could allow by taking pictures from the battlefield (with an associated mechanic to permanently spot enemy positions taken in that picture).
The asymmetrical PVE COIN gamemode way : One last way I can think about, to make these aircraft’s true purpose shine, would be to create a a gamemode where their capabilities would be necessary, in an asymmetrical PVE gamemode only allowed to strike aircrafts. It would comport a team of 4 to 8 players from a peacekeeping force (or something similar) tasked to help ground troops in their missions. The role of these strike aircrafts would be to help these ground troops (AI) to achieve their missions while protecting them from enemy guerrilla (AI). To win a battle, the objective would be for the team to endure the less ally losses possible (both players and AI), while causing the most damage possible to the enemy side. The battle end after a set timer: your team loses if you endured too much allied losses or if you didn’t manage to cause sufficient damage to the enemy ; you win if you succeed at both tasks, the reward multiplier being based on your combat efficiency and the amount of losses your team endured (the less losses your team has, the higher the multiplier is), to underline the exhausting aspect of guerrilla warfare. There would be four main types of objectives, that I mainly took from the actual missions given to the EALA during the Algerian War from 1954 to 1962 (EALA stands for “Escadrilles d’Aviation Légère d’Appui” in French or “Light Aviation Support Squadrons” in English):
Note : I might make suggestions for gamemodes like 2 and 3 since they have some good potential and interesting mechanics.
I also have some feedback maybe on how you could improve your post’s readability.
Also, thanks for linking my suggestion to your post, that’s how I learned about it. ;)
PS: You can also add the T-6 Texan to your French list as it was majorly used in Algeria
Thanks for the feedback.
Generally I do agree with you that COIN aircraft cannot be properly balanced in this game, with the only real solution is to treat COIN aircraft as their own class. Probably with their own associated gamemodes. Only being paired with Helicopters and Aircraft in EC, GRB and/or Naval. Maybe Nuclear Escalation. With some exceptions, they don’t fit well into the current Air Battles mode. Then again I share a similar opinion with Missile only Aircraft (e.g: MiG-25PD). Your suggestions are also quite good. Though I feel like Photo Reece could be just an extension of the existing scouting/scout UAV mechanics that we already have in GRB.
Readability is a issue which i’ll fix gradually. Same for images though for some of the suggestions, I’ll link to suggestions for said aircraft first then add the images later since i’m more focused on aircraft that don’t have any suggestions (active, passed to devs or implemented)
PS: You can also add the T-6 Texan to your French list as it was majorly used in Algeria
I will add it soon as the T-6G Texan. The French did operate quite a few T-6 variants. The T-6G specifically is uniquely a French upgrade. I would also add the caveat that other nations operated that model particularly Portugal.
I.Ae. 22 DL
Argentine development of the I.Ae. 21 DL, itself a modified NA-16-1 (better known as the Harvard I) that introduced new locally designed wings but ultimately failed to live up to expectations.
The 22 was a more thorough redesign and was much more successful with an ultimate production run of 201 aircraft used for advance training and light attack duties.
I occasionally think that COIN aircraft could be added in heli trees. Some of them at least, not all of them. Just to avoid silly situations like a Cessna shooting down a BV 238 with Hellfires in ARB.
Heli trees have loads of space, and COIN aircraft operate on similar gameplay ideals, i.e. a slow airborne vehicle with potentially strong armament. The balancing would come via BR and spawn point costs. A rockets-only COIN aircraft for example could be a much lower BR than a rockets-only helicopter. But a higher BR than you would expect a fixed wing that is so slow to be.
I think I’d die of happiness. 30mm gunpods. Rocket pods. Countermeasures. Exocets. There has never been anything so glorious to happen to a business jet. The sheer comedic potential is unmatched
It’s so cute I might cry. This thing activates my maternal instincts.
I have a little more info on the COIN PAC CT/4 for you guys.
The aircraft photographed seems to be ZK-DGY, PAC’s production prototype, and the one that remained with the company for testing and sales pitches. AFAIK at the time she was the prototype for the ‘Swiss’ (actually bound for Rhodesia via a Swiss shell company) order of 14 CT/4B, all of which seems to have had the hardpoints + wingtip tanks.
When that order was shut down by the NZ govt the 14 aircraft had it all removed for their sale to Aus. There is a 6-page brochure out there about the CT/4 from 1972 which supposedly has more photos of the rocket pods, but I only have this small extract showing the wingtip tanks, but it does mention the hardpoints.
There’s also a few photos of the RAAF CT/4 A19-064 rigged with missiles as a joke.
Even though the missiles are a meme… I’m guessing it confirms that it has 4 or 5 useable hardpoints.
Rare Katangan Fouga Magister
