you forgot bombers can shoot behind them and aim without maneuvering
fighters need to fly toward the bomber’s guns to shoot them
shooting bots isnt skill
the problem: most will fly to orbit or run away all game after dropping, so you HAVE to shoot the down early. however i do not want to risk any damage from them having half decent turret aim because often it forces you to rtb if you get hit
bomber turrets may be outright overpowered, but i will call you bad for being unable to aim them here
Man, at this rate, as a joke
Removal of bombers in this game will be easiest and the perfect solution :/
Gaijin got scared of the 2km deathball of Tu-4
So decided to take the eyeballs of every gunners off
And initiate the SARH missile threat against them
While removed airfield destruction.
Maybe we didn’t have our rights to breathe in-game at all.
So…then why don’t you support alternative objective structure?
Using what I proposed, where each of the three objectives is only able to eliminate 50% of the ticket bar, in situations like this you would not need to chase the last guy to orbit or to his airfield. You could just kill the same number of ground units he is worth in tickets and pull the rug out from under him anyways.
A typical game has what, 16 players and 10 (I think) bot attackers. Assume they’re 100 tickets each. Throw in, idk, 52 AI ground units, both soft and hardened, worth 50 tickets each. Then add in a Deep Strike-style bombing target with the same value of tickets in destructible buildings (let’s say again 26 buildings at 100 each). Match has 5200 tickets in this example. Each of the three can take up to 2600. Either fully doing all 3 or doing 1 plus any portion of the other two wins you the game, take your pick what.
If you get a runner, an AF camper, or an astronaut, you can just eliminate his value in tickets and render him irrelevant without needing to pursue them.
As opposed to the fighter player that sits within their airfield’s AA radius the moment they don’t have every advantage known to man, and quite a few that aren’t.
Would really suck for you if I could aim them (Cos y’know, I’m familiar with the aircraft). You can aim them well, even with aced crews, and dispersion will still mean only 1-2 rounds of a 50 round burst will hit the target. Bomber armament is incredibly bad unless you’re stupid enough to get within 500m. Which, based on your claims, I feel like you’re telling us is how you approach them.
Never claimed it was. But I would also highlight there’s not much skill in using fighters to down bombers. Or attackers. Or frankly, even other fighters if you’re half paying attention to the game. Which again, assumes you take a game that offers very little respect for your time seriously enough to pay more attention to it than the bare minimum.
I concur - I observed this using the PBM-1 Mariner in a squad with a friendly random today.
tickets need to just get removed, i should not be FORCED to play pve even after winning the air battle
i’m not here to shoot bots, i’m here to win games
rolands are weak so i can just fly in and nuke them no issue
paying attention to the game is pretty close to the definition of skill… what are you even getting at?
if i’m triple as effective as you every game for example (a true one at that) and you are around average, skill definitely is playing in here
Not wanting to be forced to play PvE is a reasonable take, but since bombers are a thing they should at minimum be somewhat useful or effective.
You would not have to, man, at least not in 99.9% of matches. How often are you the last player alive?
Only in those fringe cases, yes, you’d have to.
And there’s nothing inherently wrong with flying a fighter. What’s wrong is seeking to actively deny everyone else regardless of what they enjoy doing. I don’t understand where your animosity comes from.
Is it some sort of “Vietnam flashback meme” situation remembering when bombers and attackers were more effective, hating it because certain maps were indeed pretty stupid, and not wanting a return to that?
then move the PvE out of ARB?
Y’know, I assumed you engaged with props when you’re claiming skill. However, by pointing to roland’s you’ve really outed yourself as someone who spams missiles instead of engaging in the actually half skillful side of air to air.
It really is fun how this metric does not mean you are more effective. If we had the same goals, sure. But simultaneously, if we had the same goals I’d pay more attention, which I won’t until the game starts making it half worthwhile. Though I somewhat suspect your ability to grasp this concept is lacking.
So, you want to kill the bomber in the early game
Because they will orbit climb
But you don’t want to get any kind of scratch while intercepting?
And Bomber shouldn’t ruin PVP by airfield destruction?
Then, What is purpose of bomber in war thunder?
Being an expensive AI Bot that is played by masochists who want to get shot down?
BTW, everyone complains about orbit bombers, but almost nobody complains about Orbit Ta152 or runaway F-104. It is strange isn’t it?
Unfairness of treating bomber needs to just get removed. I should not be forced to be a meaningless freerider even if I want to contribute to the match while playing bomber.
I’m not here to be RP pinatas, I’m here to win games.
I really wonder, when you guys hate PVE players because of being useless
Why do fighter mains want them worthless even further?
Sure, add an RB EC gamemode that is up 24/7 that is actually well made, and you can make ARB into a fully PvP AAB+ gamemode.
But given than not even Air Sim has gotten an update in about 4 years or even a new map in 3…
Until then… ARB needs to remain a viable gamemode for everything and everyone and the bare minimum is just making sure there is actually ground targets to drop bombs on that give rewards.
There is already some pretty harsh punishments for ground attackers like the more bombs you take, the less reward you get from each target, start reducing available ground targets on top of that…
It kills ARB for 1/3 of aircraft
Every fighter player is scared of losing their precious KD so they hide anywhere they can the moment they lose even the slightest advantage. It’s incredibly boring, and generally makes the metric more or less useless. They’re as tedious as roaches, and I see it far more often than I do bombers in orbit. Aside the bombers that y’know, climbed whilst lining up a longer bombing path (proper heavy bombers that generally require far more time to line up multiple targets).
Ehh, I see the entire debate on “skill” as both pointless and tasteless. What each person enjoys is their own business. I have no desire to take away his fun, but currently him completing his objective takes away the ability for others to have their fun…on his own team.
As much as we have nostalgia for AF bombing in low tiers, fundamentally it really isn’t much different. Nor are attacker zergrushes wiping out most of a map.
As I do not want to debate with anyone on what should be “most important” for whatever reasons people on either side of the debate have, that is why I arrived at the idea to take away the autowin potential from everybody.
it kills it for 1/3 of aircraft types maybe but not even 10% of Aircraft featured in this game are strategic bombers
If he’s gonna make the argument about skill, gonna highlight when his position is a bit rubbish. I don’t overly care, but if mate is going to make the argument, he should actually y’know. Have a claim to it.
very very often in fact
props turned into no fun garbage, and the rolands only appear below 9.7, otherwise it’s ITO 90. i can aim perfectly fine in gun planes it’s what i fly most anyway. take a look at my recently flown stuff in statshark. literally 0 of it is top tier.
more kills = more wins and less dying. i impact matches outcomes far more by being good at pvp.
maybe you dont but plenty of others do
skill is not flying over a target and pressing spacebar it requires minimal engagement with the game and should not be able to win it
Its not just about strategic bombers. Its every ground attack aircraft, Things that have no buissness getting into a dogfight and even multiroles being used as multiroles at top tier.
Whether you are talking about a fairey swordfish or SB2U all the way through the heavy bombers and eventually up to top tier interdictors and coin aircraft… There should be some gameplay for them. Something they can do beyond try to dogfight a fighter aircraft
PvE is meant to be a core component of ARB
ARB is supposed to be a PvPvE mode, but Gaijin made so many changes to the gameplay loop to please the instant action fighter crowd. ARB literally is a slightly more realistic version of arcade at this point.
Isn’t even that really, given the significantly inflated G limits in both.