“change”
The discussions are mainly about kill allocation / rewards for assisting in kills. Kill stealing is a direct consequence if the allocation is not working properly - team kills are more than often caused by kill stealing.
But i agree, we have separate thread for this:
https://forum.warthunder.com/t/severe-damage-did-nothing-to-fix-kill-stealing/84776
Thanks Uncle J, just trying to see if this was a recent update that made this an issue.
With tanks its whoever gets the last shot I guess and everybody else is an assist maybe. Often we are all going for the same guy.
Sometimes I am annoyed that somebody came in and took “my kill” but a dead enemy is dead enemy and sometimes I appreciate the help when I am flagging out there, Im awaiting the mercy blow and my enemy blows up,nice.
I know the AC mechanic is different but last hit on a target is just that and often so much is going on that its hard to know who got what.
Personably I would remove team kill from the game except SIM especially if needle over this causing team killing. Its a stupid idea anyway for planes.
I find the air games so silly and over so soon that I am amazed it’s even an issue and I find it a shame that its all spilled over into GRB where I live .
I wish Gaijin would separate the two.
What is it about then?
Gaijin likes to break things when something else needs fixing, i only asked because there is no offical statement as to why and it was not too long ago they added the black dead plane mechanic.
I do find planes are hanging around longer with no wings attached which can be a bit of a distraction as you keep an eye on hoping your team leaves it alone. I liked it best when it turned black, not many knew it was stil worth something but it was difficult to finish off
Regarding air games being silly - it depends mainly on the quality of players - and up to 2019/2020 you needed actual skill in Air RB - all changes since then were aimed to reduce the required skill level to participate. That’s why you see whole lobbies of Mach 2 capable fighters bombing bases…
A very good and/or tight prop match in Air RB lasts often 20-25 minutes, some years ago we had 1 hour matches - with epic battles. The short duration of prop matches on average is caused by tankers/non-pilots flooding the mode - not all, but the newer generation. Either they base bomb and die or they perform point and click headons - no skill, strategy or tactics…all leading to snowball effects so you play either 8 vs 2 or 2 vs 8 after 6-10 minutes. But nothing better to win 1 vs 5 by smart game play - rare, but it happens.
And frankly spoken: Imho this whole new mechanic is caused by masses of tankers killed in Ground RB by dead (=kill feed dead) planes as they stopped firing on incoming planes after they saw the kill message - and not by the few Air RB noobs getting killed by a jet with just one wing…mainly as they were unable to keep the necessary level of required awareness.
Same here - The team killing/friendly fire for tanks vs tanks is disabled as too many (insert iq related assessment) guys are playing tanks - somehow gaijin insists on teamkills/friendly fire being realistic for Air RB. Detailed written in the old forum.
I feel like I’ve explained this dozens of times, but let’s try again.
In general, severe damage mechanics already existed in the old system, it was just named “destruction”. So basically if you e.g. teared off the wing of the plane in the old system, it was counted as a destruction and you received a full kill credit (with 100% kill score and 100% kill rewards). There is one major exception from this, which is an engine damage, that was considered a critical hit in the old system, now it’s severe damage.
Destroyed (severely damaged) plane in the old system looked like this:
If someone decided to finish this enemy, he would get an assist without a kill credit (67% kill score and 25% kill rewards).
In the new system the situation changed and right now this plane is considered “severely damaged”.
Severely damaged plane in the new system looks like this (pay attention to the nameplate color):
The person who severely damaged the plane in the new system only gets a partial kill credit (that counts for tasks and challenges, but doesn’t count for service record). That person also receive partial rewards (80% kill score and 80% kill rewards).
If someone else decide to finish the enemy in severe damage state he receives full kill credit (that counts for tasks, challenges and is also counted as a kill for service record). That person also receive partial rewards (40% kill score and 40% kill rewards).
So you can easily figure out in the old system both players could gain much more combined score and slightly more rewards from one enemy (167% kill score and 125% kill rewards) than in the new system (120% kill score and 120% kill rewards). Also the full kill credit changed from the person who severely damaged the plane (in the old system) to the person who finished it (in the new system).
Both systems are actually pretty similar. The old system was much easier to understand in my opinion, the new system is much more complicated, because it’s much harder to figure out who is severely damaged and who isn’t (the nameplate keeps the same color).
And I’m not even including critical hits problem in these calculations. Because in the new system the devs removed most critical hits. In the old system you would get a critical hit every time you caused a severe damage or finished the enemy. All these critical hits are gone in the new system (we are not sure if that’s a bug or not). The problem with this is, the critical hit is worth about half the assist (to be exact, one critical hit is worth 33% kill score and 10% kill rewards). These missing critical hits are actually something that I miss the most, because I could gain even 10 critical hits per battle before, now it’s at most 2-3. So you can do the math to see how much score and rewards I lose in each battle due to this critical hit change.
There are also many other issues this new system caused, by keeping “dead” planes alive for longer. You can read about them in this topic and in the previous severe damage topic. These problems are not easy to fix, so they will likely remain in the game.
you can spam dozens of times,… this doesn’t changes FEELINGS OF being rewarded accordingly
I do miss crits i think they should be given to any control surface and iteams such as radiators, landing gear, fuel tanks, radar, gunners
So basically you prefer to get 80% of the kill score, 80% of the rewards and a partial kill credit (that is not counted in your service records) in the new system than 100% of the kill score, 100% of the rewards and a full kill credit in the old system for doing the exact same thing?
Your way of thinking is absolutely amazing. Congratulations!
Now he is only getting 40% 😆
A long time ago making any part black was always a critical hit, so it was easy to figure out critical hits. Some time ago they changed this system in Ground battles and they removed some parts (like optics) from this rule.
I saw a theory that the devs actually decided to nerf critical hits in Air battles now (and used this new system as an excuse). This is just a theory, so I don’t know. Considering they still didn’t “fix” critical hits in Air battles, it’s possible they will never do this.
If you include critical hits, in the old system finishing the enemy was counted as a critical hit (33% of the kill score and 10% of the kill rewards) and an assist (67% of the kill score and 25% of the kill rewards). In the new system it’s 40% of the kill score and 40% of the kill rewards. So even here it’s not a clean improvement, because previously you could gain 100% of the kill score and 35% of the kill RP/SL rewards and now 40% for both.
This is also why we lost so much score with this new system, but the rewards are not that different (they are still lower, but this is more due to the lack of additional critical hits).
You also have to keep in mind, the devs could easily just add a partial frag to the person who finished the plane in the old system. But they decided to redesign the entire system in such a way that some people are so confused that they are very happy that now they get less for the same thing.
I prefer to 80 over 50 yes…
I’m not, i’m no KS player.
Gaijin dont give anything away for nothing, not these days
In a short period of time you start to recognize a few of the names. There is only one “employee of the month” award though.
sadly for you, i’m no employee,… if only i got a single GE, each time i defended Gaijin choices,… i would have finished TT thanks to premium time i would be able to buy from it.
i’m SIMPLY, saying this:
I PREFER this reward system because it is more rewarding when you ever got killstealed, because you then recieve 80% and not the bloody 40% as it was before, when 95% of the time the ennemy was UNABLE to fight back as they’re today.
on that point some says that current system broke what was previously done → ain’t this the purpose of a change?
saying that you change things without changing thing only is a PLACEBO,… and people that can’t deal with it have also multiple choices in their hands: Play / leave / complain
but in all the honor of those who complain and having rights to do so:
IF they can’t accept that people sees the “problem” differently, then you’re nothing else than a ranting player, using force and verb to impose your views.
and then : why would gaijin gives you credit for it? for being a cunt? this is WT Community, and not some EU political shit show about wokism, capiche?
i have my right to see things differently, as you have yours - both aren’t always incompatible.
but both of us have rights to speaks freely on this forum.
but you, and colleagues, acting as little childs crying on what they’re wanting don’t do you any favors.
Is that a sarcastic threat there?
Never doubted it. I’m glad you agree with me then.
First, if you kill your targets you won’t get them stolen. Then you are confusing severe damage to those times where you just critted a target and someone else “stole” you that kill, but the severe damage replaced many of the “old” kill conditions, so it replaced those situations where you would get the kill and the target would get a grey marker, not the ones where you could get the kill stolen. That is why it’s not a question of getting 80% instead of 40%(it was actually 67% like _Poul explained so many times) but more a question of getting 100%(plus the critical hit) instead of 80%.
The current system is meant to nerf score rewards as a whole. There are bad changes and good changes, and this one is bad in terms of score as a whole. When you have score based events it only serves to make them more time consuming on average.
The problem is when people don’t totally understand the change. We complain because we thought about it and understand that it is bad for the players as a whole. I, personally thanked Gaijin on my first post about it but then when I started to think more about it I got to the conclusion that it is a bad change and doesn’t solve neither kill stealling or being kill by “dead” planes(the difference is that they will have a red marker now). I rarely don’t finish my targets and it’s very common for me to get a high number of kills without any assist, so this won’t even change much for me, but I see this as a nerf to scores since the combined score rewards will be much lower(kill and assists on same target) for the whole team.
So when you call “spam” the extensive explanations of how this new system really works, is that you accepting different opinions?
I’ll skip the passive-agressive part…
You are being corrected because you are giving wrong information to other players. Like you said, how you feel. That is not doing the maths. In other words you are spamming fake news!
This. No matter how many times you guys explain it, some people just won’t get it. We have the example just above. Sadly, this ignorance about what is really happening is why the change has been broadly welcomed and we can expect no rollback any time soon.
I’m starting to feel sorry about _Poul, he explained this change so many times with so much detail, even with proper in game testing, and still I keep seeing players insisting on their misunderstanding of the change.
But where is Gaijin?