Just makes the crew more likely to die to spall, turret baskets dont control the drive they protect the crew but gaijin cant understand that.
The issues I have seen are not the spalling but the “It disables the turret”
Which yeah a damaged basket could sever the hydraulic lines. Problem we have in game is we expect penetrations to act like a simulation and they just dont.
1 Like
They could also sever electrical wires that come through the slip ring, completely disabling electric powered turret drives, autoloaders, radios, and flir but the nerfs were only done to US and Leos
Problem you have is only an M1 and Leopard 2 will survive a lower plate shot.
CR2, Leclerc and all the T series tanks die.
Either you have the mechanic for everyone or you don’t. Abrams do not survive LFP shots. Leos do
2 Likes
Leopards have no hydraulic lines. The t-drive is electical.
Electric motors are used to drive a hydraulic unit/pumps which operates your turret and elevation
“The turret and the main gun of the Leopard 2 are guided by the WNA-H22 electro-hydraulic drive. It consists of vertical and horizontal motion drives, a HKV hydraulic power unit and a control unit. The hydraulic system uses a closed circuit with 36 liters of hydraulic fluid. Most of it is contained in the hydraulic tank installation HKV. The HKV itself is located in a small compartment in the rear of the tower on the right and is accessed through a large hatch in the roof of the hull. In fact, it is an electric motor that drives an axial piston pump. The pump takes the hydraulic fluid from the tank, compresses it and sends it to the hydraulic accumulator. From it, the liquid passes through the system of pipes to the drives and from them back.”
The mechanic needs to be applied fairly to everyone. Even if it puts those models in a worse position. Abrams and Leopard players didnt ask for that nerf. And we should not have rewarded bad shot placement in the first place.
It is deemed realistic by Gaijin.
I play Britain and never benefit from a front Leo or M1 shot it is too risky with L27
1 Like
Realistic for some, not realistic for all
Well, thats the case for older A4 models. More recent A4 and higher are electrical (EWNA). You’re referring to the 80ties. There’s a rather small e-drive with an power cable leading up to it. Nothing more.
People begged for this. T-series got them first, then Abrams and Leopard 2s.
No one was complaining that T-series tanks got the “nerf” first.
It was only when Abrams and Leopard 2 were given equal treatment with T-series tanks did people start complaining.
Said equal treatment is what we voted YES on.
The only vehicles left to implement these on at top BR is…
Granted, Challenger 2’s a unique case and not really a “basket” in the same way that T-series tanks don’t have “baskets” because the autoloader acts as the basket.
It is wild to see people complain that Leclerc, Merkava, Ariete, and Challenger 2s don’t have “baskets” modeled in War Thunder yet.
the T-series and other carousel autoloader tanks DO NOT have the basket mechanic yet. It is extremely common to put a round in the side of a T-80, kill the autoloader and just have it turn and shoot you with the round still in the breech. The basket mechanic prevents you from turning the turret, something that should have been implemented as soon as baskets were added, I cannot believe that simply linking the already existing autoloader damage model to the horizontal drive is difficult for gaijin to do.
T-series tanks don’t have “baskets” to begin with.
They have autoloaders that act as baskets, which are modeled in-game and were the first to receive it.
Autoloaders aren’t turret drives, either.
Your post is implying that you want NATO bias to exist in War Thunder, but nation bias will never exist in War Thunder.
Neither are Abrams and Leos turret baskets IRL.
What a majority here are discussing is the fact that the basket they added on Abrams and Leos act like a turret drive in-game when it shouldn’t. So if they add a mechanic in-game (that doesn’t exist IRL) then all tanks should get the same mechanic in game. Selectively doing it to just one or two groups of tanks is what many have an issue with.
3 Likes
I can’t remember my Leopard 2 research.
Abrams turret drive starts with the floor connection though. Good ol’ 1970s technology that our engineers decided didn’t need updating.
Cause while the T-series tanks have all of their drive mechanisms along the turret ring, and Abrams starts from the basket floor.
Others are different as well.
Baskets will exist for tanks that have baskets IRL. Same with autoloaders.
Gaijin already said that non-mechanisms won’t impact turret traverse, so if a basket is bugged go ahead and report it. I recommend using the worst APCR rounds for testing as to reduce spalling as much as possible for accurate testing.
Abrams: The whole basket isn’t directly connected to the floor, there is a centered connection in the basket to run hydraulic/electricity/etc through that in turn drives the turrets components. The basket itself around that isn’t connected or doing any of the work. So if you look at the main posts damage model (leopards shown but still helps to make my point) only the center circle should be the part that if damaged effects the drive.
Leopard: There is a hole in the center that hydraulic cables and electrical cables are run through. it isn’t connected to the floor at all. same as Abrams i can fully accept that hitting that center that has the cables will disable turret operability but no the whole floor.
Incorrect (at least to my knowledge), there is a slip ring but no drive.
The issue here is that their rationale is that hitting the metal of the basket will bend it and jam it against the floor and/or the walls so by that logic the T-serries autoloader should do the same right?
“damage to the basket can physically deform its elements and prevent normal functioning of the turret drives or damage everything around them if the turret was rotated.”
Where did they say that? Because currently they do, and from what i understand that is how they are intending it to work so reporting it won’t be fruitful as it’s working as intended.
“important elements such as electrics and hydraulics are all located in and around the basket area and all provide some power to the drives and turret in different ways. These and other elements fill almost the entirety of a tank’s interior outside of the crew operating areas. The floor of the turret basket is not just a metal sheet to walk on, but instead houses all kinds of electrics and hydraulics with means to connect them to the hull.”
Those are not modeled in the damage model and the floor is instead the thing that stops rotation. The last sentence is also to my knowledge not correct.
4 Likes
If that was the case the walls of the Leopard 2 [and presumably Abrams] baskets wouldn’t have been removed from the damage models.
I quoted directly from the devs response in the main post:
“damage to the basket can physically deform its elements and prevent normal functioning of the turret drives or damage everything around them if the turret was rotated.”
The walls weren’t part of the damage model, but the electronics and hydraulics were:
Here is the hull of the Leopard 2A5: ( User:Boevaya mashina/tanks - Wikimedia Commons )
The “tubes” are the suspension bars, the electrical wires are the ones that are connected to the basket.
Here is the 2A7: ( User:Boevaya mashina/tanks - Wikimedia Commons )
The only thing connecting the hull and the basket (at the floor) are those three electrical wires and that one hydraulic hose that are in the center of the image in-between the suspension bars.
Here is someone that had a tour of the Abrams factory in 2013: ( Building the U.S. Army's M1A2 Abrams tank (pictures) - CNET )
The images are numbered to the bottom left, image 9 shows that the floor is indeed just a metal sheet and doesn’t house anything. Lots of things on top of it though that would effect the turrets handling if hit, (again, i personally have no problem if they model those things). Image 15 shows the slip ring that connects at the center of the basket.
So i personally argue that this:
Should have been the other way around.
Agreed, all tanks use slip rings as well, if not for hydraulics than for electronics. Hitting a tank there with an autoloader should not only stop the aiming drives, but also knock out the autoloader, and thermals. If Gaijin is not going to model every single electrical connection going to said components, then the hydraulics should be removed.
I did get this bug report accepted. Hopefully they apply it to leopards as well
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/cHv8RM6tfvNo