Its not closed at all?
You just cant argue the points anymore.
The “i aint reading all that” is not because you dont want to. I reckon its because you genuinely cannot read all that and understand each point as its written to you.
It doesnt get much more basic than that.
[quote=“_Ladies_Man_217, post:763, topic:218296”]
If that happens they would cry to Gaijoob and instantl
Can do the same in the F15E, rafale, and even typhoon infact ive actively seen more F15s and Typhoons succeed
Who is they ?
So you suggested that we 100% take away the advantage of having an autoloader? on top of having three crews instead of four and the longest reload timer in its respective br? how is that balance? also they modelled the rammer which is located inside the turret between the turret crew, so any penetrating hit to the turret will often result in rammer getting damage, and its link to the autoloader cassette, which means they both goes out of service when hit, before the addition you only lose one crew member when hit and 100% can shoot back, now turret hit you are likely lose the ability to return fire and that is a nerf one way or another. Not to mention this usually happens right after you fire off a shot, while still reloading you take hits to the turret, autoloader is now damaged before you load another shell. Some of you here didn’t pay enough attention to what was happening
And someone is not paying attention to others’ experience shared under this topic. Indeed tanks like Abrams have shorter reloading time, but such design makes reloading harder after reloader is dead. Unlike autoreloader which can be repair at anywhere, new crew can only be ‘repaired’ in zones, not to mention the (protection) to other crew. What I mentioned all the time is shot on their hull, not turret. Plus,almost all mbts’ shooting will be disabled(or they are destroyed) if the turrets are truly penetrated, not only those with autoloader. Thus in any cases you had better run and repair. Now, once M1 and Leo are penetrated, they no longer aim and fight back because of a 100% broken turret, unlike USSR tanks which can shoot back even if they autoreloader is damaged. If someone is pay attention I believe many similar examples can be found.
Anyway, I think we should talk more about turret on Leo and M1, not whether autoloader is good or not.
Lol it’s you who decided to brought up the t series and play it off like their autoloader isn’t a nerf compare to their previous state, I wouldn’t even want to comment except NATO mains just keep saying things that isn’t true. You can choose to leave that autoloader part out and fight for the removal of basket or seperate turret ring part without suggesting another nerf for autoloader module, which is annoying enough to play these days.
People tend to notice things that are bothering them. Kh38 spam is MUCH MUCH more active
When deformed autoloaders would prevent turret traverse as well well as ingame turret baskets, there would be kind of equality. But right now russian tanks have a free shot, cause they’re still able to aim and to farm a free kill.
Also keep in mind, when a loader gets taken out, he’s gone. The reload cycle is aborted, has to start new and is much delayed. While the autoloader just can be repaired. The ru tank remains operational with one shell loaded. This new mechanic around the turret basket is especially horrible on all these close range maps. You lose tank after tank just cause you can’t aim anymore, baskets always tend to get taken out, even with minor damage. It takes ages to repair and ru players easily use the time to rush your position. Cause they know, its a free lol kill. Maps are too small for 30-40 sec rep times to be able to shot back. Sometiimes I just don’t understand how I lost my basket, when in fact just my track was hit etc…
I’ll ask you again, do you have a source for this or is it just trust me bro ?
For long rod darts spalling is calculated based on the shell’s pen, so higher pen rounds will spall better.
F15E with some old JDAMs and mavericks from the 80’s comparing it with a modern missile just shows how the US is advanced.
He does not.
But there are folks with the genuine source that proves exactly what you said.
chinese mbts are so much better than abrams in so many aspects. youre crazy for saying abrams is better than them
Oh man and I always thought the main advantage of having an autoloader was that you now have a tank that is fully operational with just 3 crew. So you can then have a much smaller turret. And in russian tanks cases with even more cramped interior an even smaller turret. which then is much lighter with equivalent protection. Which then makes it possible to put it on a smaller hull with still equivalent protection.
Ergo you have a overall much smaller tank that now is 40 tons with similar protection in comparison to a tank with 4 crew and 60 tons. Or somehow, magically in case of the french 60 tons with 0 protection. (Man those frenchies…what were they thinking producing the most expensive mbts worldwide while somehow being among the worst protected vs kinetic shells) Or supposedly 80 for the Paper mache merk…ah well lets not get into details.
But that might be just me.
Why in the everliving fk should that advantage of having a mechanical autoloader not have the drawback of that mechanical autoloader being a damagable module? Why should that commitment of deciding for that feature come without having its drawbacks? And adding to that why should that autoloader that is sitting inside a similar turret basket remain able to rotate when hit while a turret basket consisting of some wiring and a metal bottom shouldnt?
And dont even get me started on how the drawback of havin 2 of 3 crew cramped inside a tiny turret which should be a massive disadvantage in terms of post pen survivability more often than not just isnt, because the breech just full stops the whole dart or eats all spall or how just one of the turret crew eats all the spall so the other survives. If any of that was slightly realistic i bet after a penning hit in the turret fighting compartment everything would be red mist, instead the guy just sitting beside the dude that was just turned into red mist goes: well now it would be a good time to turn the turret and shoot the gun don’t ya think? but tbf that also goes for tanks with 4 crew so…
SMH
I always thought spall is mainly linked to the caliber of the shell? I hate how these hidden stats (which probably are also different from week to week and no one can prove it unless data mining and reading through insane amount of in game files) are impossible to proof since afaik even in kill replay and protection analysis spall is only visible when it hits modules or crew. spall that just flies around without hitting anything is not shown. Or am i wrong in this?
Having got almost all the abrams, and most the chinese MBTs bar the VT4 and the 99A the abrams are miles ahead.
The Chinese MBTs armour isnt even modelled properly at all xD
Tell me what aspects are the chinese MBTs better other than top speed forward?
worse overall mobility.
worse reload
worse round
worse effective armour
worse survivability.
worse profile.
? what am i missing
In what world does the abrams have better mobility when its nearly 10 tons heavier while having the same horsepower? The extra penetration doesnt matter because youre only shooting at weak spots anyway and wont penetrate any other spot. The 99a has one of the best turret armors in the game and much better hull armor than the abrams, the only way youre gonna get one shotted in the 99a is if they shoot the lfp, no one shoots the weakspot in between the hull and the turret because its nearly impossible to consistantly do it unlike with the abrams that is a spall generator no matter where it gets penetrated. i dont even remember when was the last time i didnt one shot an abrams. the only thing the abrams has going for it is the reload
Mobility does not only include acceleration or top speed forward. Turning/Maneuvering also in thight spaces, switch positions in reverse etc also matters, arguably even more. Especially since just pushing straight into good spots in tanks with mediocre (frontal) armor is just a diceroll, its way more important at how effective you can be once you are in a position.
Also pen matters, especially angled pen since it determines at what angles shots (even at weakspots or sides) are reliable. 90 degree side? true doesnt matter as much. frontal pen at weak t series lfp? doesnt matter much. but shooting the angled hull side of a t80 bvm through its era? Matters much. How i know this? trial and error with weaker darts especially the cursed top french one which is a diceroll in comparison to dm53 or other top rounds. Also weak spots get slightly bigger if you’re shooting rounds with higher pen which makes especially shooting on the move and snap shots easier
Mobillity is better on ztz99 thats no brainer
Reload agree
Round agree
Effective armor? M1 is huge weakspot. Not hitting it is massive skill issue
Survivability? 1 shot might not be lethal but definitely completely disables tank making it 0 threat level
Profile? Cmon dont be stupid. M1 is significantly bigger profile
Oh i forgot the chinese top mbts have the good transmission. well then the mobility is up to people to judge that play both i guess. 17kph in reverse seems decent.
What you left out is: Gun depression, Proxy fuze heat fs, but the chinese ones get he instead