[Should Gepard SPAAs and ZA35s be replaced with other types of vehicles at lower rank matches for convoys?]
Yes, an AA that can be dodged/dealt by stock helicopters and the ones with no ATGM armament available.
No, they’re good as they are.
0voters
Hello.
I will begin with a necessary change that bothers especially new players that have no effective armament to deal with this threat in battle.
Now Gepard and ZA-35 SPAAs are not an issue for all helicopters, especially if you have ATGMs with 3.5km+ or can get access to them with ease, but they can be a real issue for the ones that won’t receive ATGMs or if they are limited in range, especially since the new ATGM update limited most of the early missiles to 3km in range - putting you in danger of being shot down by the Gepard SPAAs and ZA-35s.This is especially difficult for the low rank ones like AB.205 or AH-1G, which they can be pretty problematic to deal with.
This is how most encounters with a Gepard SPAA will end up if you try to get in-range to a convoy:
Even more modern helicopters are not safe, if you are forced to get in range to the SPAA (this can be seen with the early Chinese Z-9W model with 3km ATGM range):
My suggestion will be to replace the Gepard vehicles in the convoys with something less lethal which can be dealth with by any helicopter, especially at lower ranks (like AH-1G, AB.205, french H-34 etc).
I will recommend an SPAA like SUB-I-II, Ystervark, Bosvark, M42, M19, BTR-ZD, ZSU-57-2 etc. with less lethal range and less precision, that can also be dealth with less effective weapons systems for early helicopters and which they won’t shoot you down in 1 undodgeable salvo as it happens at this moment.
I do agree that the Gepard and similar AAs are very, very hard to counter with just unguided rockets, so they could be present in matches only with a higher BR.
But I think that the problem is with the AI targeting precision, which is to the level of sniping.
If the SPAA model gets changed but the precision is still the same, the problem will persist.
At least this will give you a better chance to hit since you can approach more. Shilkas for example start shooting at 2.5km away, but in general they will start hitting around 1.5km. They give most of the helicopters a chance to hit them, with a few exceptions (like AB.205 with limited rockets, so you can’t really spread’n’pray with rockets). And a gun caliber with less capability to 1-shoot helicopters will also help a lot.
But if they replace them with open-top SPAAs (where gunner is exposed), this will give you a chance to fight back even with 7.62mm machine guns. The Gepards also tend to survive most of the time because fragments or HEAT shots will not deal damage to the crew inside the turret, if you don’t hit them spot-on (which is even more difficult on the move from 2-3km away) or if you don’t detonate the ammo.
And since SS.11s were nerfed to 3.0km range most of the time, the helicopter numbers who can deal with them safely has been greatly reduced between 7.7-9.0, not to mention some nations never had ATGMs with range above 3km (like China).
These helicopters were used in the 1960s & 1970s, facing threats of the time.
I agree that advanced radar systems for heli PVE is too much for these helicopters.
Heli PvE in general needs massive improvements, the devs promised but delivered a rather half assed mode.
If they want to make it at least semi attractive they should add a more target dense environment ( including sectors with planes and ai helos, but mostly for higher brs and make those more localized) and just raise the rewards ( i know, impossible demand, especially nowadays).
Honestly for replacements for early helicopters would be the Bofors guns or the S-60/68 AA guns, and also Oerlikons and KPVs.
Another thing is to just make them less accurate in general. They are too accurate and can (and do) snipe people from unrealistic distances.
Unnecessary, too much work to replace the vehicles themselves. It is easier to change the accuracy of such vehicles. Many months (possibly years) ago, the Gepard AI was less accurate than it is now. I do not think such vehicles should be removed, as they offer a challenge to players and prevent easy farming in PVE.
It was done in the past as they replaced the M163s that used to fill this role. Unfortunately, when it comes to AI Gaijin either makes them too powerful or too weak, this is why I was requesting a new vehicle. And at 7.7 - 8.3 BR the Gepards can be hard to kill for some vehicles, especially due to desync issues and there’s plenty of areas where you can hit it and survive.
And taking into consideration most changes done on early ATGMs like AS.11 with physical wire and less range (used to be 3.5 km guaranteed now it is 3.0 km) and short-range helicopters like AB.205, UH-1B (Japan), the Swedish HKP3C (with only 2km range of ATGMs and poor flight performance of the missiles) less effective SPAA should be taken into consideration.
And it’s not that hard to replace 1 unit with another, in fact this could be done way easier (as long as their range and volley accuracy is taken into account) rather than modifying the AI accuracy. We already have Falcons for bases and Shilkas for Front Lines at 7.7-9.3 which are less accurate and deadly than Gepards.
Even the previous M163s were less lethal than Gepards (they used to start firing at 2.5km and became lethal under 2km range, Gepards start firing at 3km and can 1-shot you even at that range) and you could actually kill them even with an MG if you got close enough, since the gunner is exposed on the top of the turret. But we have so many newer SPAAs nowadays that could easily fill this role, with more exposed crews, even the old ZSU-57-2 is more exposed and has a lower fire rate (not sure how the AI will behave with accuracy, though).
But in my opinion, the ideal vehicles could be something like Ystervark, Bosvark, BTR-ZD, SUB-I-II, AMX-13-DCA40, TPK. 6.41 and the list goes on. And - as I said - only for low rank helicopters, from 9.7 and above the Gepards are fine since you can outrange them even with TOWs and HOT missiles.
Agreed 100% and the SPAAs that follow the tank convoys are even worse, with early atgms it’s already difficult to hit them because you can’t lock the laser on them while they move buggy af so you can never know where exactly they are (specially in rocky canyon), with early helis that don’t get atgms it’s just a NIGHTMARE.
They don’t really need to change the vehicle. The vehicle isnt hard to kill. Just the properties of the spaa in general. By default in CDK mission editor they are set to 0.80 or 80% accuracy. Which if you didnt know is absurd. Accuracy set to 12% is already extremely accurate. That gives you almost 2 gun runs before getting shot down. Worse if its a fast firing minigun or dual gun radar system. Setting the accuracy to about 0.08% or 8% will be fine enough and the chain fire time and delay after shots.
