Multipath is the same across all radar missiles lol
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yet r24r and r27er are incredibly reliable at low alt compared to western counterparts
I’ve never failed to multipath an R27ER into the ground, and I’ve defended against hundreds. You’re not flying as low as you think you are
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I got shot down a few times by it flying at tree level, literally couldnt go lower
You know you arent supposed to literally hug the ground right? You have to keep low enough to enable multipath, and high enough to not get damaged by splash damage
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it wasnt splash damage, they were direct hits
Literally impossible, you were either too high or it was splash
Not impossible. There’s an exploit going around showing that if you unlock a radar missile a few seconds before it hits a low-flying target, it can sometimes hit them rather than going underneath them.
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True, but in that case it hits because the seeker is off. It stops any guidance, so it doesnt pull down as it would when affected by multipath.
This is so incredibly inconsistent that it’s not even worth mentioning, you’re essentially turning off any tracking for your missile, PERFECTLY timing it at the edge of multipath layer, and then hoping that the enemy doesn’t deviate whatsoever for it to hit.
No, if a missile has IOG it just means the missile will keep pointing where it was previously tracking, meaning if you broke the lock when it was multipathing, then it will continue ‘tracking’ into the ground on the multipath trajectory, and if you broke the lock above multipathing it will continue going on that current trajectory.
This new “exploit” is completely overblown. There’s plenty of reasons why you could’ve gotten the kill, it’s definitely not because you ‘found a way around multipathing.’
I honestly don’t even believe that the “turn your radar off exploit” is even a real thing. Even under normal circumstances there is a chance that the stars align in a way that the missile still passes within proximity fuse distance of target. I think that’s what’s happening every time someone thinks that this “trick” is working.
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Exactly
One way around multipathing I know is launching SARH from high above, so missile physically connects with the airframe, or flies close enough for proxy fuse to work when guiding towards multipathed location. Obviously its rather risky strategy, but effective nonetheless.
Also it might be reason why ARH missiles in dev test two months ago had such aggressive lofting, to “bypass” multipath when launching them at long range.
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100% agree. Never should’ve been implemented this soon in the first place.
As a total Soviet aviation fanboy, whose all-time favorite jet is the Flanker, I must say that there is no debate or even a question. The R27ER is overperforming and in no way consistent with real life. Neither is it a question of it terms of game statistic of kill probability. The R27ER (specifically ER) is overperforming in flight performance at close range.
The R27 has 6 variants to cover a multitude mission setting. There was never one variant of the missile that magically performs better than all others in every mission setting, ranges and altitudes without having to redesign a new missile altogether.
The ER version of the R27 sole purpose was to extend the range of the R27R, not ever replace it.
Furthermore, the ER was a missile designed and carried specifically for one aircraft.
The Su27’s design and primary mission type is in long range intercept. Specifically targeting the vast numbers of strategic bombers (both supersonic & subsonic) of the US Airforce’s Strategic Air command. This was the principal aviation threat of the USSR and OKB-51’s primary design focus in the Su27. The ER was designed for that mission and that specific aircraft.
Extending the range of the R27R has drawbacks. Extending the range of any missile while staying within the same design specifications has drawbacks.
The ER is larger, heavier and equipped with the same exact control surfaces that are designed and rated specifically for the smaller R27R. The ER cannot be given a massive thrust as we see in game that is able to go Mach 3.5 in less that 6 seconds off the rail at ANY altitude (even vertical at 90 degrees) without having to design a new missile altogether.
The ER performance at close range is fake. It is not possible that it be heavier, accelerate much faster off the rail but still perform better than the R at close range.
In order to achieve extended range, but limited to stay within the same missile design, Vympel opted for a long burning motor. It is also why NATO simply referred to the version as the “Long Burning Alamo”. It never received the additional thrust to push it to such speeds immediately after launch as it does in game. Because if it did, it would require a need to design an entire new missile all together with new aerodynamics & control surfaces to compensate for the insane acceleration and additional weight to maneuver. Long burning motors are designed to extend the range of a design and allow the missile to stay effective within all the range in between.
This design principle and philosophy that went int he ER is the same one that went into extending the range of the Aim7E in the F variant. Its sustainer motor was given to extend the range but extend the range & remain combat effective against targets at all ranges in between as much as possible. Strapping too much thrust, along with mass and weight into the same exact missile design without upgrading its aerodynamics and control surfaces has limitations that are universal. It’s no different for the R27ER.
These ER is simply not designed to accelerate at close range and still maneuver better than the R without a drastic redesign of the missile. A bigger motor and thrust does not solve this. An entirely new aerodynamic design would be called for.
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The reason the ER performs as it does is because of how it was added to the game. GJ implemented the R27ER solely to increase the game efficiency of the Mig29 even though they knew the model would be buffed anyway.
The ER would not be as effective in increasing the Mig29s efficiency if it did not perform as good at closer range, that is why it performs insane at all ranges.
The R27ER of War Thunder is modelled and implemented for the Mig29, a jet that has no business carrying the ER ever from a technical, historical and even a Soviet doctrinal one.
Now, the full effects of the ER are felt in the Su27 and its probably why GJ has still not modelled the Su27 radar, its precision and additional modes nor is able to model the full range of alpha in the Mig29 and give it the R73 as it deserves.
The Entire Soviet aviation tree at top tier is defined and limited by a single missile’s overperformance.
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It’s affected less due to other characteristics of the missile.
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Right away - you’re wrong. The missile was updated to align with primary sources from Moscow aviation institute. It is one of the most accurately modeled ordnance in game at this time in regards to kinematics and performance.
Also kinda useless cuz people just skim the ground and make it useless.
The MiG-29 FM already has the full range of alpha, up to 60° true AoA (90° in relation to ground for usual ‘Cobra’ conditions).
No? I think it is defined more by unique designs all capable of a decently high sustained turn rate and AoA if managed properly but with risk of high energy bleed or loss when not taking too much care. The high accelerations and top speed with hard hitting guns and fantastic short range missiles cued by an HMS allows them to be true menaces in the furball meta. The real hard counter being the AIM-9M’s…
Anyway I see no reason to remove the R-27ER… Just prepare yourselves for fox-3s by continuing to skim like y’all already do. Make yourself immune.
ONLY on kinematics its accurate, the rest is wrong
Guidance is just wrong. The guidance laws for it exist, a variable PN constant with a quite sharp rise at the transition phase from radio correction to SAHR.
If you drop lock(or is lost), the missile is trashed as the radar stops the illumination mode.
On the initial target locking phase, the missile has a ± 150m/s speedgate. (±292 kts). It’ll lock the strongest doppler return Mach 0.5 above the expected target return or Mach 0.5 below. TO give you an idea the sparrow E is ±150kts(77m/s). If a Mach 1 target is doing more than 60° from you in a lookdown situation, the missile will straight up lock the ground. Possibly an even smaller angle if it got fired at long range and the missile leads the target.
You can only guide TWO through radio correction. If you fire the a third it’ll just launch but not acquire the target if RCS isn’t big enough for the seeker.
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