Thank god these lovely people can see better than i do. I sure need to get some glasses one day…
…because from that video i thought the ER had a massive speed, range and time to target advantage. I’m glad it’s just an illusion after all
Also, i’m happy to know that DCS = WT = reality. I thought those were 3, well defined, separate things
Time to target only matters for those not paying attention to their RWR.
Speed is irrelevant in BVR, and if you’re WVR you’re using superior IR missiles.
It means that they can happily sit on the missile taking no defensive maneuvers and letting the range decrease (allowing for the missile to have more energy for terminal maneuvers, thus a higher SSPk), at 680m/s (which adds up to 10.2km over said 15 seconds, assuming a maximum range Sparrow shot was taken), before they need to do anything.
And since its SARH guided, once illumination degrades; tracking stops. That puts the Sparrow equipt fighter on the defensive from the start, which further degrades the capabilities of the follow-on shots since it massively inflates the risk profile of allowing the range to close.
Speed gives the missile better range, and serves as a store of energy for defensive maneuvers if anything it is very important to conserve especially if you chose to close into the merge since it gives you options.
speed is very much relevent at BVR, it reduces the enemy’s reaction time, not to mention the maneuverability that goes with it. You also seem to have forgotten about the range part, but surely this is also irrelevent to BVR according to you
With all that being said, who’s to say i’m only talking about BVR ?
speed is the single factor that makes 530D better than 7m at close ranges, for instance
At this point, and with no intention of sounding aggressive, what do you bring to the conversation ? You don’t want to recognize the basics of SARH fighting
R-27ER is not fast enough to go 16km in 5 seconds.
Sorry that I know more about SARH fighting than you; It however isn’t my fault that I have over half a decade of experience doing it and learning from 20+ of the best BVR pilots.
Here, I underlined the SARH platforms I used for you.
@tripod2008
A good offense is a good defense. Going defensive against SARHs puts you in a more aggressive position for IR missiles.
Please explain how Cranking or going Cold helps you employ IR missiles? If anything its handing your opponent free angles that they can use to simplify maneuvers and puts the target outside the gimbal limits if done properly so precludes their use entirely.
Where are those random numbers coming from and who said them ? Cause i sure did not.
This is called “argument of authority”. The big problem of this one is when you try it against someone who isn’t affected by it
I’m not going to bother underlining SARH platforms, i’m sure you know them well, since you are an expert…
Next time please make a solid argument instead of going on the stats territory. The “stat measuring contest” usually leads nowhere except to unecessary bragging
You’re closing the distance to your opponent the entire time.
As you get closer there’s a delay from them giving up on radar missiles and switching to IR, you use that inherent delay no one can fix and from a now head-on position outplay them since you’ve also went with allies so you’re in a wolfpack.
Even if your wolfpack somehow died, you out-dogfight them due to their fluster.
@dedale_stargate
Then don’t challenge peoples’ knowledge when you didn’t put in the tiniest bit of effort to look for yourself.
Granted, you would have to assume I use my Soviet Mig-29 as a bomber for the lolz since that’s what I do.
Gee, I’m sure you could have conveyed that point in less pompous tone…
yeah no effort for sure, like bringing sources, such as the video above…
oh
and i don’t know why you feel the need to mention your “soviet mig29” since it wasn’t even in the list you shared.
You would’ve come across it if you checked yourself.
The chances of you figuring out I was using it as a bombing bus were slim.
Either way, all my SARH frags were against unaware targets.
Usually that’s how it goes for SARH frags for everyone.
Forcing people to climb is something very, very few people have done at all, let alone consistently.
it would be unfortunate if having one team forced down low against a team moving at every altitude they see fit could somehow cause a disadvantage to the one forced in the “multipath layer”, wouldn’t it ?
With high thrust aircraft, there’s no such thing as altitude advantage.
Such as, going evasive against an aggressor kinda hard to do at tree level, dogfighting in general, avoiding a mountain, not getting cucked by hitboxes, not dying to a Phoenix’s Splash, avoiding buildings, did I mention dogfighting if I have then I am doing so again as it is important, queing up missile shots in airframes without HMD, the act of flying the aircraft, and far far more. Does that help or do you need I need to show you. Not to mention having altitude allows you to dive on people who aren’t paying attention.
Documentation that doesn’t reflect the actual combat performance of the missile. There are many examples of equipment that in its design were there but were lacking in the finalized product or were not made to the standards of the said design. Should also mention Gaijin is very inconsistent with the modeling of equipment as they assume far more than they should.
Which applies to every missile, my point has been the ER can really only be defeated via multipath… the which isn’t applicable to every other SARH missile including the regular R-27R. All the rest of those missiles can be defeated via kinematics and countermeasures. Something that the ER is very resistant to.
What does that have to do with my point at all congrats on not touching grass, but that still doesn’t change the fact that you are coping about the 9M.
Not really, as again preflaring the 9M will keep the seeker off making it nigh impossible to launch. Due to how the 9M’s IRCCM works.
You both continue to not ascertain that in an actual match you are not going to be at less than 50m ground level of Alt at every instance. Which is where the ER will 100% kill you. Why is that fact so hard for people to understand.
Not necessarily 9Ms are amazing at taking out people you aren’t paying to much attention, and who aren’t preflaring. R-73s have way better close range use cases, and completely blow the 9M out of the water even when an enemy is preflaring the 73 can still be launched and can still hit (with any luck of course).
Like if you are gonna say shit like how so when you are flying out the grippen and go above Multipathing alt and going out onto the other flank get one kill and then be smoked… just saying you might not have much room to stand on. Well this was fun, but I need to play some ARB to get my stats back to where they should be for this month.
The AIM-7’s would have quite a poor record in that case.
In fair conditions, sure. The same could have been said of the AIM-7F vs R-23R or R-24R for a long time. The balance has always been asymmetrical. The fact of the matter is that a single effective method works against both ordnance and provides complete immunity.
Your own statement would indicate that your own ramblings would be “coping about the R-73”? I don’t see how me pointing out the incongruency of your statement with reality is “coping”.
I have had no issues at all with people pre-flaring the 9M. Use it correctly. Slave the radar. Whatever.
You’re right. I often end up on maps where sea level is > 50m. /s
If you’re putting yourself in a position where you’re fending off peoples’ missiles when you are also unable to stay low for another reason… you have bad placement. You could argue that this heavily depends on whether or not your team got stomped but in a lot of cases it is totally avoidable.
Yes, at close range the R-73 has a much better chance of hitting a target especially from rear aspect. That’s how the design works. The AIM-9M has much higher chance at success across a broader range of launch conditions, though.
certainly, but it gives the advantage in terms of surprise potential with the use of unexpected angles.
That’s war thunder meta 101 really
War Thunder meta is closing distance for IR missiles, which is why Mirage 4000 and Gripen sit on top.
Su-27 and F-16 manage cause they have 6 IR missile pylons.
F-15s “struggle” cause people are distracting themselves with their radar missiles when they should be used as backup missiles. F-15s still have 4x IR missiles for up to 4 frags.
SARHs specifically hold a few purposes: Keep people low and aware, scare them into making a mistake, frag unaware targets.
Most of those things are more trying to push the enemy into a maneuver that lets you gain advantage.
Most of the time it won’t work. I think War Thunder is almost to the level of SARH ineffectiveness that real-life SARHs were at. War Thunder players aren’t quite to the level of defeating SARHs like real-life pilots have.
there is no reliable way to counter r27er, it can even hit you while you hug the ground where sparrows will go dumb
Oh look another person who thinks R27ER isn’t affected by multipath
it is, but not as much as aim7f/m
