Running away, I see. Cute and sad, but expected.
No problem. Send me a pm when you stop having a skill issue.
Yes ,remove it immediately
Yes, it is precisely the problem. The armor meta is no more thanks to vehicles like M-51.
You are the one that’s coping, malding and seething, your only arguments is that I’m a dumb German or Russian main. I could say that you have a meltdown, because your precious Super Sherman won’t be able to shoot 105mm HEAT shells with 400mm of pen at T-34s and Tigers.
M-51 was a successful stopgap solution to deal with T-55s, yet here in War Thunder it somehow supposedly has to shoot at T-34s or slow heavies it can lolpen, otherwise it won’t be balanced. At 6.0 there should be a Firefly with APDS serving as a glass cannon Sherman, not M-51.
Easy kill my ass, it doesn’t matter. Hellcat is an easy kill and it’s not a bad tank.
The main problem M-51 introduces, together with other crap with modern ammo at 7.7 and below, is that it makes armor completely obsolete ahistorically. It’s nothing more than some kind of sick fantasy.
Being so insufferable that the other person doesn’t want to talk to you is not a victory.
- You keep forgetting that this game doesn’t historically matchmake. You need to wake up and smell reality already, or touch grass. Either/or.
There never was a definitive armor meta. There has always been vehicles that negate the armor of HTs in any given BR range. You’re either new to the game, forgetful or intentionally ignoring reality.
It’s also funny how you Werhaboos and Ivanboos moan about the Super Sherman but forget that the Russians have HEATFS at 5.3-5.0 with the Pt-76 and the Germans get HEATFS at 6.3 with the Jpz. 4-5. But sure, let’s just gloss over that because it’s convenient for your piss-poor arguments, right?
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You’re in the wrong game and forums if all you want is historical MM. Feel free to see yourself out and go elsewhere that suits your fancy. Your argument is invalid and worthless.
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The only ones insufferable here is you lot moaning with your skill issues about a tank that is objectively bad.
ikv 103 noises
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Another thread of german mains whining that their Tigers and Panthers aren’t invincible to everything frontally…
As a disclaimer, Germany is my second most played nation. That being said, I would take the Panther A/G any day of the week over the M-51. I cannot comprehend how truly bad you have to be at the game to think the M-51 is OP at 6.0.
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I was focusing on Russia and Germany but yeah, every nation has HEAT and/or HEATFS slingers at BRs with HTs.
Also, before I forget - The German Walker Bulldog gets access to HEATFS at 6.3 too.
What??
Ikv 103 gets HEAT-FS at 4.0
It’s not a BR flaw, it’s what’s left of the historical accuracy that once was in War Thunder.
Good to know that Stugs, Jagdpanzers, Hetzers, Su’s and Isu’s are not tank destroyers.
Because 75mm M3 is a bad gun at 5.7-6.3 lmao. What are you even arguing about here. Compared to German 88mms short and long, American 76 and 90mms, and Russian 85 and 122mms it is a terrible gun. A good platform can make this gun work, but it’s still a bad gun.
Not everyone can be good then I guess. If remembering what side is the gunner on, right or left, having a feel for the shell drop and leading targets is hard, then no wonder you think M-51 is bad.
No I didn’t, you can’t read. You also didn’t bother to read my rephrased version of this sentence, made for you, so that hopefully you would understand this time.
I know, but that’s not important for this discussion. M4A1 is a Sherman with the lowest BR, that’s why I’m referencing it.
It is a downgrade, it lacks stabilizer and has lower power to weight ratio. It has slightly better engine, but weighs 33% more, probably because of the massive gun.
They are not equal, if you bothered reading my replies thoroughly you would know, that I also suggested BR decompression to make a distinction between M-51 and AMX-30. However, M-51 should be only slightly lower than AMX-30 and higher than all WW2 vehicles and slightly post-war, but conventional vehicles like IS-3 or IS-4. Some tanks blur the line like Caernarvon, Conqueror and AMX-50 Surbaisse.
Lmao. With that logic Leopard 2A7’s gun is a worse gun than long 88. It may be worse when fighting opponents for which both of them are an overkill, but it’s not a worse gun.
Also Tiger 2 is definitely not faster than M-51, it has a higher top speed it almost never reaches. It does have better reverse speed, I will give it that.
It is a problem when you drive a T-95 going whole 13 kph and you get killed in 2 shots from the front by some Super Sherman M-51.
I could say that you’re making me look bad by saying a Sherman with AMX-30’s gun has to fight T-34s and Tigers in Berlin and it can’t possibly deal with a T-54.
Better all rounder than the m51
All of them should move up, haven’t you realized? There should be a straight up purge of modern ammo at 1.0-7.7. BRs of 5.0-7.7 is not a place for so many rat tanks with modern HEAT or even APFSDS. The best ammo on these BRs should be APDS that Fireflies and other British WW2 tanks had, but that’s it, in all other cases it should be APCBC, no cold war bullshit.
What do you mean, since when complaining that my tank can be penned literally everywhere is whining that my tank is not invincible. I’m not complaining my tank has weakspots, I’m complaining that my whole tank is a giant weakspot. My tank sacrifices mobility just to be penned everywhere by 50% of the tanks on the battlefield that are cold war junk.
This is the biggest cancer that the game has, and it makes what could be a great game something mediocre, and boring to play, in which with every shot you make you wonder if this time the game won’t screw you up and you I will let you play correctly, which does not usually happen, since shots like the one in the video happen almost in all the games I play.
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Hmm, nah. Not really, anyways. I’ll treat each vehicle on a case by case basis of whether they need a BR raise or not. Especially since Solid AP, APDS, HEAT and HEATFS are all in absolutely pathetic states right now.
If Gaijin did something about it, then I’d revisit the topic but still on a case by case business. Additionally, the Super Sherman simply doesn’t need a BR change. It’s an objectively bad vehicle and even if the shell stopped being such a dice roll that means nothing for the rest of the tank as it would still be a tall, unwieldy, slow platform.
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True, that. The mantlet has a few uses like tanking long-range shots though since it’s really the only strong point of the M-51’s armour in my opinion.
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Mantlet? Tanking shells? Maybe from the small caliber guns on light tanks but anything on another medium tank or heavier is going through like butter.
LMAO WHAT?
So does that mean the Strv m/38 and Strv m/31 should face Leopard 1s, Pattons and such because they’ve got APDS shells? No!
Saying your tank can be penned everywhere and anywhere DOES mean your tank is not invincible, even by other WWII tanks like the T29.
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I don’t think removing the M51 is a good solution as with any vehicle as the title of the thread suggests. If you were to move the M51 up it would suffer also becuase of it’s limited chasis and given the already low diversity and nature of the isreali tree, that would make the starting grind for them even more undersirable. An example of this ‘certain technology not seeing World war two vehicles’ standpoint in practice is the myriad of Tow boxes at 8.0 who suffer greatly. You never see them as they are so weak but gaijin has stated they don’t want to move them down as they auto pen World war two era vehicles. They’d have to greatly decompress evrything but there are not enough vehicles in the game to do this unless they add more duplicates which people will then be unhappy about so, it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t scenario much like a lot of topics.
Apologies if this has all been said already i don’t want to read this whole thread. Idk what an optimal solution would be but as someone who all the nations and the dreaded missile boxes I can at least add a little more perspective.
And? The M-51 is literally a giant weakspot. In fact, it more of a giant weak spot because literally everything at 6.0 can easily kill it while there are plenty of things at 6.0 which struggle against German armor. It is one of the only tanks that can pretty reliably pen Panthers and Tigers at any range. Meanwhile, the vast majority of German tanks at this tier can one-shot nearly everything anywhere. Should all the German Panthers be moved up to 8.0 too simply because they one-tap everything?
Do you honestly think that the M-51 is more mobile than a Panther A/G?
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The mantlet’s armour is somewhat weak around the edges (130-150mm) but the area around the gun can reach thicknesses of 200-500mm (enough to stop Panther or even King Tiger shells, perhaps at the cost of losing your gun breech).
Other than that, fair point. In rare instances due to the volumetric nonsense it theoretically could tank heavier shells though. First-hand experience.
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