Here is 105mm heatfs.
Any shot that hits the crew compartment over pressures it.
Let me guess, alien? It DEFINITELY doesn’t coincide with a misfire and cookoff.
Reverse image search says that it is a m109 that was hit by a lancet. No clue which variant though.
What caused that damage? It looks like something hit it and a massive energetic impact caused the hull to collapse.
I thought we agreed, you really need to work on your communication skills.
Highly explosive rounds was exactly what I wasn’t talking about. Or does the IS-6 shoot heatfs rounds?
I think it kinetic energy would be suitable for that. The less armor and the higher the caliber, the higher the kinetic energy.
Btw back when hullbreak was a thing, it would only get triggered by rounds bigger than 75mm (not sure about the exact number), so it being triggered by low caliber rounds is completely out of debate.
I was doing this to show the guy that posted about 152mm heatfs say that it did not damage. I probably should of quoted him. My bad.
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…‘no armor is the best armor’… and yes i support your idea Reintroduce Hullbreak really need it
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We definitely need a feature where vehicles don’t have the advantage of being less armored.
Gaijin always considers paper armor a disadvantage - and yes, in certain situations it can be. But there are just as many situations where paper armor helps you.
Gaijin should, in my opinion, create an environment where paper armor is actually a disadvantage instead of just pretending it is.
I think a good idea would be modeling the kinetic energy impact. Sure it may produce little spall, but there’s still an energy transfer. Maybe it could damage components like turret drives, transmissions, etc. Another thing would be large caliber impacts on things that can’t be penetrated. If you shoot a volumetric portion of a turret ring and it doesn’t pen, the energy transfer should at least do some damage.
Except that paper armor can literally be an advantage in real life as well? I don’t know where this myth is coming from that a tank round hitting something lightly armored should just always destroy it, but that’s just not how it works.
Because the armor was thin, the penetrator didn’t break apart at all, and neither caused much spalling, and so it exited out the other side barely doing anything. Sure, anyone sitting in the way would have had a very bad time, but the vehicle definitely wasn’t destroyed by it.
Kinetic penetrators only “do something”, when they have a way to transfer their kinetic energy into something. Armor that puts up barely any resistance also only absorbs a tiny fragment of the round’s energy, and so not much damage is done.
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However, thin armor plates will break much faster irl.
In addition, the structural durability of the entire vehicle is likely to be much lower than the one of medium or heavy tanks.
One very important thing you have to keep in mind is that irl modules cause a lot a spalling and shattering, too. This is not represented ingame which profits slightly armored vehicles more than any other.
The game is not a complete representation for real life because of gameplay reasons, so should hullbreak be.
Hello.
I agree. Just look at how survivable TAM is compared to its MBT cousin.
They should take the naval flooding mechanism, give light tanks a hull health, and adapt it to ground; “flooding” should result in instant death (cus the naval system is inconsistent)
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HESH definitely needs hull break
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I said this before but vehicles, yes, vehicles should not survive anything with enough HE. We need hull break for light trucks and the such. We have vehicles like Pantsir surviving things it shouldn’t.
No damage to crew at all! If this had been a ItO90 or ADATS it would have had everyone taken out.
This, absolutely. Why should an arbitrary list of “light vehicles” which can be heavier than MBTs (looking at things like the PUMA and Nesher) be instantly destroyed due to damage of the vehicle’s exterior? Sure that’s realistic, heavy damage to a vehicle will completely knock it out even if the crew is unharmed. But this is still a game where you can completely swap the drivetrain, tracks, armament, and literally every other internal component in 30 seconds! The only way I see hull-break as a good implementation is if it applies to all vehicles and also repairs (and by extension crew replenishment) are disabled. But I expect very, very few would want to play such a hardcore mode, considering even just Sim has so fewer players over RB.
Plus you know overpressure already takes care of light vehicles, if people learned to simply take the 5 holy HE/HESH they wouldn’t have any problem with “no armour best armour”.
100000000% yes. Its crazy when you smack a BMP with 165 or 183mm HESH only to get a “HIT”
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Any tanks that suffer from over 20kg TNT explosive should be Hull break, I don’t believe there’s a tank out there that can withstand that much tnt.
No, do not reintroduce hull break. It was awful and literally made more problems than solved problems.
Vehicles with poor protection survive AP impacts because the AP lacks the capability to impart its energy into the light armor, that’s literally realism. If you know you’re likely to face trucks and light armor in your BR zone, bring HE as a first shot. This is especially true for the Jagdtiger, where the HE is very effective, having HE content that is more than capable of killing literally everything on the battlefield frontally. 3.7 kg of TNT will absolutely demolish literally anything, provided you know how to aim.
I’ve literally gone played the IS-4 exclusively firing HE in the past and it is surprisingly effective. The Jagdtiger has around the same HE content for its ammo.
That’s not realistic in the slightest. Your video shows what amounts to the most optimistic extreme edge case where a full caliber “AP” shell transfers significant KE to the target, but you failed to note that the 105mm round was not actual 105mm ammo from history.
That’s a cast pot steel round, that is both especially soft, heavy and slow to not put much strain on the gun and pressure bearing parts. Actual 105mm L7 KE ammo would fly into the aluminum engine block and fly right out the other side. The cast pot steel ammo is equivalent to using a hollow point bullet on a soap bubble. Not at all representative of 105mm APDS or even 105mm AP/APHE. Note that a majority of catastrophic damage images from the web are due to one of three factors; fire, high explosive or multiple shots.
Load HE then. You can and most certainly will oneshot many vehicles of any weight class with large guns. I load HE or HEAT whenever I need to deal with something without armor, it’s second nature for me now. If you can’t reload safely, then you make the best of the bad position you put yourself into and fire into the “hardest” part of the light vehicle and hope your HE content carries you. It works quite consistently.
No, that’s nowhere near reasonable. Hull break was a punishment for light vehicles because most players were too apathetic to load the correct ammo. Unless it’s applied globally (see LOSAT kill mechanism IRL), it will always remain a punishment for light vehicles. Overpressure and correctly functioning additional modules are fine for now.
If anything, were you to actually suggest a reasonable “hull break” it’d be made exclusive to ammo with high explosive content (and certain edge cases such as LOSAT) as KE ammo will overpenetrate and fail to deal significant damage even when hitting “hard” modules of vehicles IRL. HE makes the entire structure of things warp and fail, KE will sail through one side and right out the other, even if there’s a lump of aluminum in between.
I said that I know that twice.
Are you for real saying that you should play the Jagdtiger with HE main?
I sometimes do that with the IS6 when the spam is too bad but this can’t be a real solution. If it was you would see everyone with a heavy tanks playing with HE, but that’s not the case.
Idk what would happen with each round on each vehicle irl, you probably know that way better than me.
In fact, though, we have a distortion of reality where a light armored vehicle would be out of action after being hit in the right spot. One example of why slightly armored vehicles profiting from the ingame environment is is because of the rep. mechanics.
It is quite inconsistent. As I have showed, the extrem of that is having to scratch the gun breech of a M109 so it does kill it. What a great time to be playing a 20 sec. reloading gun. That’s just not what I mean by balance and fun.
Maybe at that point where reloading takes half a minute it is not about being apathetic anymore. If no-one manages to do that, maybe you should blame the game and not the player.
Btw overpressure is very unrealistic, too. Not as a concept but it is way over exaggerated. Just as a note.
HE as your main ammo? Don’t be ridiculous. I’m suggesting you load a couple HE rounds first and then switch to APHE after the initial light vehicle rush ends. It’s not that complicated.
At that point, it is your fault for being apathetic, yes. There are tanks with 30+ second reloads that still need to load the right ammo for the right targets. T30, Obj. 268 both have slow reloads and cannot get away with exclusively firing AP ammo. It’s annoying and cumbersome but it is the right way to play. Jagdtigers work best in one of two situations; with a friend to cover your slow reload or at distance significant enough to prevent a failed shot of the wrong ammo into something too light.
You can hit him in his ammo, or shoot his driver / transmission and retreat to reload HE, fire just under the gun to fuse your ammo on his engine block, or even shoot the ground under him to overpressure edit: it seems they’ve recently changed this behavior to make it much more difficult. Still, ammo and engine hits will kill a M109 consistently. There are many ways to deal with a M109. If you have to deal with multiple tanks with a M109 who thinks they’re invulnerable, that’s a case of bad position or bad luck, getting rushed during a slow reload is a weakness you have to play around.