Hello,
I was wondering, of the two Bismarck-class ships, which would you rather see in the tech tree? It seems to me that they’re going to make one of them an event or premium, because obviously, but which one do you think should be in the tree proper?
Personally, I think that Tirpitz would be better in the tree than Bismarck. While yes, she was essentially only present for the campaign of solitary confinement in Norway, I still think she would be better because she survived longer, and was outfitted with far more modifications than Bismarck. Tirpitz was fitted with almost 50 more 20mm anti-air than Bismarck, quad torpedo tubes, and very good radar, such as the FuMO 26 and 27, along with FuMO 212/213 AA gun radars. Because of all this, I think it would make her a better tech tree ship than Bismarck, and even though I don’t think either of them should be premium or event, Tirpitz should be the one in the tree.
With the limited amount of german batteships, we should expect both to the tree together with gneisenau altho the last one may be cooking for an event one day.
Bismarck with its pisspoor AA system will surely come first, since this will balance it in a way, making it dependant on the teams AA cover.
If one of them is going to be Prem then it will be Tirpitz. It follows Gaijin naval premium ship formula that you make ship with better AA be premium. But my guess is that both will be tech tree and then we will get planed 16inch armed Bismarck-class as prem and finally tech tree will end to H-39.
Well in case of Yamashiro it also has lower BR then Fuso, and Marat is lower BR then Kommuna+ it has better AA then Polatava.
Also Missisippi has superior AA then Arizona.
In case of Iron Duke all ships have about non-existent AA
Hate that !!!
I do hope that Tirpitz is the one that ends up in tree though, for the reasons I already described. What they might do (which would be cool) is how they seem to be implementing the Nagatos, one with the bad AA and one with the good later AA (presumably).
But the Bismarcks didn’t ever have “bad” AA the same way the ships from WW1 did… so idk
Ingame Bismarck AA will be fine. Number and calibre of guns will shred everything. AI mode AA guns in WT Naval are all pretty good. Even a few AA guns are already enough to protect your ship from most attacks. Consider that planes just attack alone in WT Naval. There won’t be any coordinated squadron strikes. Just WW1 Dreadnought without any AA are shafted. As far as I know IRL they overestimated the speed of the Swordfish biplanes, something which won’t be translated into War Thunder.
I want both the Bismarck and the Tirpitz class Battleships, represented in War Thunder, one of them would be nice as a Premium / Event Vehicle the other a Tech Tree Version.
Mississipi is not a premium ship, its only event ship. And comparison of Poltava and Marat is meaningless as it shares basic ship modelling of Kommuna, not Poltava.
And there are still other cases. USS Wilkinson - USS Mitscher, USS Frank Knox - USS Gearing, SMS Nassau - SMS Westfalen, Courbet - Paris. I don’t deny ‘better AA = premium’ was once the formula of premium ship. It just not fit today.
The german BB’s AA systems in general are a massive disappointment.
Its unfortunate the germans never even bothered designing an AA refit for a BB using any of the actual GOOD AA guns they had available around the time period.
The 150mm + 105mm DP guns should have all been replaced with the 128cm twin gun turrets in DP mounts.
The absolute garbage 3.7cm SK C/30 should have never been made and are an affront to whatever higher power you may or may not believe in, and should have all been replaced with the vastly superior 3.7cm autocannons commonly used on smaller warships and in many air defense roles.
The quad 20mm should also likely have been replaced by 3.7cm gun systems.
The H-39’s AA is going to be an absolute joke, and a direct step down in performance from that of the Bismark class, which is already arguably rather poor compared to other nations at the time…
You forget that Bismark/Tirpitz will be fighting higher BR aircrafts, with higher top-speeds and larger payloads that can be released at longer ranges.
And comparison of Poltava and Marat is meaningless as it shares basic ship modelling of Kommuna, not Poltava.
I don’t know how can you say its meaningless when both sit at 6.7. Kommuna doesn’t sit at 6.7. All 3 ships are Gagnut class, Marat and Kommuna being upgraded, but other sits at lower BR.
Also fact that they released few ships with similar or even slightly worse AA doesn’t mean that they have dropped that formula.
The 150mm + 105mm DP guns should have all been replaced with the 128cm twin gun turrets in DP mounts.
The absolute garbage 3.7cm SK C/30 should have never been made and are an affront to whatever higher power you may or may not believe in, and should have all been replaced with the vastly superior 3.7cm autocannons commonly used on smaller warships and in many air defense roles.
Hindsight is amazing thing. But you need to remember that 12.7 cm (5") SK C/41 project was only completed in 1941 when all German battleships were already completed. Same with 3.7 cm/69 (1.5") Flak M42 was accepted into service 1942.
Thats what retrofits are for tho… you cant tell me they didnt have time to rework Tirpitz to have better AA systems, cuz they did, they just plastered a billion 20mm’s on her and called it a day.
Design work on some of the H-class continued well into the war as well, and should have included reworking of the AA systems, both due to experience in the field, but also with emerging systems, which afaik never occurred.
At the end of the day though, like you said, its hindsight, but it is unfortunate that H-39 is effectively just going to be an upgunned Bismark with worse AA in-game. Thats partially why i much prefer some of the german ships in the later tiers of WoWS, with them having upgrades to things like AA that are logical evolutions of what existed irl using weapons that were actually tested such as the 128mm DP guns and the 55mm gerat 58
Im more lamenting the fact they never even did paperwork which gaijin could have used as an option to bring the later german BB’s to some semblance of parity to those of other nations effectively.
Well we can’t be 100% sure H-39 would have been just bigger Bismarck. It being cancelled in 30 September 1939 means non of these better AA guns were completed and if that ship had been at dockyard still in 1942-44 they would have probably changed at least 37mm to newer one that change being quite easy to do.
Of course Gaijin is just going to follow original plan and then maybe give updated H-39 as event prize or something BS
First, not Gangut class, Sevastopol class. Second, ingame Poltava and Marat/Kommuna doesn’t share same modelling and DM. earlier one and later two use different ‘everything’ as in-game Marat is based on Kommuna. BR means nothing as current WT naval BR is too twisted, and Gaijin purposely makes Marat and Yamashiro 6.7 to sell it.
I call them Gangut class because that is the official name of the ship class and fact that Sevastopol was completed first doesn’t change it.
Also I have no interest to argue about these small things. Gaijin has shown time and time again that they like to make premium better then tech tree variant and don’t care about balance.
Gaijin purposely makes Marat and Yamashiro 6.7 to sell it.
Yeah, they make them lower br or give better AA.
Like I said previously. Ship was cancelled before any of these AAs were completed so of course there was no plan to use them. Also I wouldn’t put past Gaijin to bend history little, looks at M1 KVT, Ho-RI…
Ho ri was announced multiple times as best solution when there is no replacement for it. Otherwise it would be deleted. Kvt was added because it has unique vismod that could be placed on any tank.
Now saying a best imaginary version of best unfinished BB will be an event vehicle is getting offended by your own imagination.
Well yes but I’m not just considering AA I’m also thinking about the improved rangefinding radar that was installed on Tirpitz in late 1943. Bismarck gets no such radar, and is stuck with the early early war stuff but Tirpitz actually gets decent radar guided fire control. I don’t know if you notice very well but radar does actually decrease the time it takes to get a “lead” on a ship, and could also be used very well in conjunction with the DP 150s or whatever secondary AAs they got.
