What in your opinion is the most appropriate BR for this vehicle?
Take your pick.
I my opinion it deserves to be at 4.0, because if tanks like the KV-1E and KV-1B are allegedly balanced there, this thing will be too.
Reasons:
- It has no APHE shell.
- It has only 15-20mm of roof armour vs 30-40mm of the KV-1. Unlike the latter, this heavy tank is very vulnerable to planes and artillery.
- Even worse mobility than the KV-1.
- Britain deserves some love. It’s no big deal if it’s a bit too strong at 4.0. Let the brits have at least one above average vehicle.
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Fun fact, it has an APHE shell but the HE filler of it is replaced with lead!
It uses the american M61 APHE without the HE filler. (But it could get the actual M61 APHE)
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Churchill’s are fine where they are
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It could probably comfortably go to 4.3 given that the KV-1E/B are 4.0 and significantly more powerful at their respective BR compared to the churchill 7 at its current.
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the bored out 75mm is so weak man, like it works at 4.7 but barely
oh yes my bad i had a total brainfart
Yeah and no one can pierce VII’s frontal armor while having the same or similar shell performance as the M61 APHE shell. Nice balance.
In which alternate universe are you living where 75mm solidshot has similar shell performance as M61 APHE?
My point stands, the KV-1E/B at 4.0 are substantially more powerful and effective than the churchill 7 is at 4.7 for their respective BRs.
The churchill 7 has the roof armour weakspot, is very large, very slow, very bad reverse, and the gun is not good. It can be good in a downtier but you still basically need to disassemble enemy tanks piece by piece with the gun.
By comparison the KV-1E/B have just as good armour for the BR it is at, has a much better gun and much better mobility.
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Yes I understand your point but you could consider the VII’s armor in a perspective of 4.0-4.3 vehicles fighting it.
I can easily hold few shots with it in the current BR, despite having bad mobility the gun handling is good, reloading rate for a good shell compared to others vehicles of its kind.
And about specifically KV-1B/E it’s a seasonal vehicle, you barely find it unless it’s sale event, in this case for KV-1E, KV-1B is even more rarer.
Yes I understand your point but you could consider the VII’s armor in a perspective of 4.0-4.3 vehicles fighting it.
That’s absolutely no different from the lower BR vehicles that currently have to face other heavy tanks such as the KV-1E/B. Of course a heavy tank with strong frontal armour will have good survivability from the front against lower vehicles who aren’t tank destroyers.
I can easily hold few shots with it in the current BR, despite having bad mobility the gun handling is good, reloading rate for a good shell compared to others vehicles of its kind.
What do you mean “good shell”? It’s a 75mm solidshot at 4.7. It’s one of the worst shells at 4.7.
And about specifically KV-1B/E it’s a seasonal vehicle, you barely find it unless it’s sale event, in this case for KV-1E, KV-1B is even more rarer.
Not an argument. By the same logic we might as well move them up to 4.3/4.7 because it’s just a seasonal vehicle (when you ignore how common they are in the game since they do still come back on sale each year).
M61 shot (AP) it’s a good shell, now the full solid M72 is bad I know. I was comparing it, M61 shot (APHE) with M61 shot (AP) doe its performance, not characteristics like shell type and things. In a practical point of view they’re the same.
M61 with no filler at 4.7 is terrible though. It isn’t some big secret that APHE shells are significantly better than solidshot.
At 4.7 with 75mm solidshot you basically need to track/barrel/breech and pick apart enemies through small weakspot hunting or moving around the side of them because the gun is absolutely awful by this point unless you’re in a full downtier and still seeing some panzer 4s (and even the late up-armoured ones can resist it to the hull front).
I’d take the soviet 76mm that the KV-1s use at the same and lower BR every day of the week over it given it loses 7mm flat pen but gains 8mm pen at 60 degrees and has 100g TNT filler to boot.
The 75mm solidshot of the churchill 7 is terrible and everybody who has used it knows it.
The mk3 is at 4.0. Why would anyone play it when they could just switch from 80mm to 152mm of armor for no trade off.
Because the Mk3 is 0.7 lower, is faster, has a better gun, has a short stop STAB and still has sufficient armour to resist most enemy shells from the front at that BR when angled.
I thought the same until I played the Mk3 since I skipped over it initially but it is better than the Mk7 (for respective BRs). The biggest problem the Mk3 has is that it is stuck without a line-up since the only other 4.0 vehicles are the two SPAA and the pretty rare cromwell heavy.
I was talking about if they moved the mk7 to 4.0 like op wants.
Probably should of mentioned that, sorry.
Ah fair, yeah 4.0 would be too low for it too I agree.
The Mk VII is honestly a beast at 4.7 already which the ability to take insane amounts of punishment while also dealing significant damage in return. I don’t see any reason why this should ever be anywhere below 4.7, it could honestly use 5.0 considering it cannot be reliably damaged by the Kwk 40 unless using APCR.
You’d think that from just looking at the numbers for penetration, armor thickness and speed, but the name of the game in WT GF is “Speed and Firepower”. Things like the BT-7 can work well enough in good hands, 2-3-4 BRs higher because they have these two things.
This vehicle has neither, so it will never perform above average at 4.0, even in the hands of a good player.
But don’t trust my word, I bet you haven’t played this Churchill in a long while. Go on, take it for a spin and try to get even just 5 kills in a full downtier.
