ShVAKs apperently came in two barrel lenghts.
1540mm for guns mounted inside and around the engine
1250mm for wing and flexible mounts
It’s likely that the 800m/s refers to projectiles from the long barreled version while other guns produced lower velocity.
Edit: Apperently 800m/s was actually the velocity from the 1250mm barrels.
Interestingly seem ShVAKs to be the only guns in-game that have a different RoF when synchronized to fire through the propeller.
I’m pretty sure that the tables are accounting for shell drop.
It shows how the angle at which the guns need to be aimed for the corresponding distance as well as the maximum height of the shells trajectory.
Edit: Apperently I’m wrong about that and it indeed merely shows how much the shell drops instead of the height of the trajectory.
The fact you are looking at a single aircraft/gun type, and thus concluding all aircraft must be the same is kinda crazy. So one aircraft is overperforming. Big whoop. The Hispanos finally feel like they are doing more than firing potatoes at the target.
Is real-shatter finished, probably not, im sure there is edge-cases that will need tweaking, but for the vast majority, it seems we are finally pretty close. Im excited to try out some different aircraft, there are several i pretty much shelved because the guns did bugger all.
The only “big whoop” here is your lack of reading comprehension because you totally missed the point. It’s not about “1 gun type”. I’ll make sure you won’t waste my time ever again, so please, find another partner for conversation. Thank you.
The issue with Shvak velocity and ballistics is that we’re seriously lacking data and what’s available is in large part unreliable.
Same problem regarding Ho-5 and Japanese 30mm, with suspiciously good performance of Type 5 (Ho-155 in game is simply copy of Type 5, which couldn’t be further from truth).
Anyway, I think I have at least proven that 700m shot is EXTREMELY unlikely to hit, even if it’s technically possible to land it.
I tried using Shvaks and Ho-5 in custom battles yesterday. Basically everything was clicked out of the sky as fast or faster that I could ever do it with 3xMG151/20.
The boost of firepower is ridiculous, now every cannon hits harder than MG151/20 - MG151/20 as mentioned has some advantage in fragments, but it deals noticeably less damage to the target module, as proven by my P-51H screenshot (4 HEI, 4 API/IT - 2 AP hits landed on the burnign part and holes are not visible) - every other 20mm in game will rip the plane apart with similar shot placement, and some other cannons have pure HE/almost pure HE belts, while MG151/20 has 4 in 6 at best (situation similar to Hispano, which is now overperforming too, but to a lesser extent thx to horrible belts).
EDIT: Did some custom battles with Ki-84 with 2 Ho-5 in the wings - short bursts were simply ripping everything apart. I remember Fw 190 A8 with 4 MG151/20 and 2 MG131 achieving kinda the same result back when MG131 were super hard hitting too. And remember I considered MG151/20 a bit too hard of a hitter. Now the weakest 20mm of WW2 is outperforming it greatly.
I really like how during the time most cannons where useless this post got like 20 replies and now that they do damage people discuss that the still very strong Mg151 is not the strongest for 40 polsts.
I am right now satisfied with what we have. People argued that the Shavak is to powerful. Well yes it was the most powerful Aircraft gun of WWII, when it worked. But as gajin does not simulate much outside of overheating the reliability of the guns is not of much importance. Otherwise most Hispanos until the 1944/45 versions would freez up above 3000m without firing a single shot, for spitfires even earlier.
The Mg151 would need a 5% chance to explode in its around 20%(Wingmounted) missfire chance and so on.
The Mg151 is still one of the best cannons in the game. Almost capable of 100% to 0% without crew. Massive damage and one of the most accurate if not most accurate cannon mounted on any Prop.
And for some reason Minengeschoss is still classified as a HEI instead of a HEF round meaning it gets an artifical incendiary bonus.
Dude, because Gaijin was gradually improving all cannons and it’s not like they are really reading into our suggestions anyway.
I was waiting for the fix too. But before the last patch cannons were already largely OK, dealing considerable damage with HE.
This patch went absolutely over the top with damage and now 2 Ho-5 or Shvak shells work like they’re Mk108 - wing ripped off. Tail ripped off.
We do not need “perfect realism” and no one has been asking for it. BTW your MG151/20 reliability comment is absolutely from another reality."
Simply right now every cannon hits EXTREMELY hard, way too hard for my liking and I was thinking MG151/20 was hitting a bit too hard before this patch.
Now every 20mm hits EVEN HARDER.
.50 cals are now simply useless.
No, cannons before the last patch where missing over 80% of their damage. Hispanos dealt almost no damage American AN M2 and M3 dealt exactly 0 damage, as I have shown in this very threat.
50cals are not useless, not by a long shot. They still set fire in a single burst, they still ripp off wings (because in Gajins world a full AP shell somehow explodes upon impact, really funn in US ground with their 50cal mounts where APIT literally has splash damage)
Most cannons now deal the same amount of concentrated, but nolonger spread out, damage as before the update.
The only difference now is that All cannons get this. For over a year US cannons dealt 0 damage because they where the first to receive RealShatter as a test. The Shvak (incidentially I was grinding through the La-7B-20 and La-7 just the weeks prior to RealShatter being adapted across allmost all cannons and right now it is still weaker than it was before. But at least it is usefull again.
You know what the patch last “fixing” RealShatter did? It added a single piece of fragmentation to AN M2 and M3 and TWO pieces to Hispanos. Thats it. That is all it did. HE damage was good? There was literally no HE damage for US and Uk Cannons. Same for most French and israel cannons.
Have you even read the threat prior to posting in it?
Many cannons were still inconsistent cuz we still could have 0 fragments, they weren’t decent.
Now cannons are hitting hard, behaving like actual cannons in a game, I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.
I agree that MG151/20’s need a buff, it should be way more punishing, but it’s not like they are completely useless as Shvaks/ Hispanos/ Ho-5’s been for years.
Hopefully they fix the mineshell fuze sensitivity and add the cannon to realshatter (that should happen eventually) so it receives it’s deserved buff.
However I still want all the other guns to work (as they are right now thankfully).
Cannons do not and should not behave like they do right now. MG151/20 was hitting too hard and now everything hits even harder. Thwre’s no real difference between 2xShvak or 4xShvak, you’re dead once 2 shells hit you anyway. Good gunnery became irrelevant and every non-cannon armed plane is now mostly useless.
Shvaks and Ho-5 were overperforming even before real shatter
You must be a unicorn because the entire Air RB community disagrees with that.
On Average my Shvaks now need 4 to 5 hits for a kill or around a 30-60 shot burst at 200-300m which is totally fine. Spending 5-20% of your ammo on a kill on average is decent. For Comparison my P51 still usually gets the Kill after 200-600 rounds (depending on if I attack from a side or behind) They also usually set fire with the first few hits (and fires have been a nearly 100% kill for months now because self sealing fuel tanks nolonger work properly) So even with 50cals I am sitting at 5 to 30% of my ammo for a kill. And again if I don´t secure kills I am closer to the 5%.
My Hispanos need between 5 to 10 hits to kill and they are less accurate.
The oneshots are rare. they usually happen on defelction shots in a dogfight when an enemy is pulling some G´s and loses its Wingtip or part of the rudder. In an Ambush they usually carry on as the plane is under no stress so wings don´t go flying. But consider me old fashioned but a Wing with 50% of its area missing and the rest shreded by shrapnel can not withsand 5,6 or more G`s
Disagree. For the first time all guns work properly in the game, it’s very satisfying and challenging imo.
What? That makes no sense, you still have to play your aircraft strengths? You will get your kills on ppl just like before… if you are playing your cards right.
Nothing has changed about that dude.
The average player will still commit the same mistakes, get their gun jammed, miss their targets, stall infront of you, yada yada. It’s not like they suddenly became gods and their Shvaks or Ho-5’s will hit you from 3km away or that you will lose your skill simply cuz their guns are strong now. Aircrafts still have different amounts of ammo loads, if you don’t aim properly you will still run out of ammo - and that’s huge for the average players.
The difference is that mistakes are more punishing now. You likely won’t fly away after getting into full commit headons or by playing poorly, cuz you can no longer sponge massive amounts of cannon rounds like you could before since some 20mms were as strong as 7.7mms.
Before today, I was unaware that true shatter existed. I don’t read updates, but my 20mm guns had a major buff, so I came here. 90% of the time now, they snap off wing tips or complete wings, tails, elevators, and rudders in two or three shots. When playing the Focker-Wulf or AM-1, you aren’t lighting anything on fire or harming their controls, pilots, or engines; instead, you almost always end up chopping them into five distinct pieces after five or ten rounds of hits. I consistently use tracer rounds because they look great, so if you wanted to do it with HE, you could probably finish it faster.
I must disagree. I’ve been flying P-51s a lot lately and .50s still work fine, sure you need a bit more gun time, but nothing to complain about, because you have way more trigger time than most cannon armed planes, so you can start spraying the enemy down from much further away.
Meanwhile, with Shvaks, while you can hit shots from far away, the low ammo almost forces you to get closer before you fire.
They work exactly as they used to. Everything else is 1-shot wonder, MG151/20 is actially thw qeakesr 20mm right now.
The thing is - there’s 0 reason to use .50 cals because everything outguns you by A LOT. All non-MG151/20 cannons will rip your olane apart. Today my Yak-3U got hit by a single 20mm and my entire wing was gone. To achieve the same result with MG151/29 you need 3 shells on target. Which is still extremely low number.
Of course horrible players will barely notice. But I simply click people out of the sky. 5 kills and around 120 ammo used because if 1-2 shells land, it’s over.
Well, they are probably dead on 2nd hit. And I have seen a fair share of gun camera footage. Planes take some shots before going down.
With MG151/29 I sometimes have the luck of spraying the enemy left to right and rhey are a flying wreck, but often alive with 7-8 M-geschoss holes all over the place.
With Shvak? Click? Gone. Click? Gone. Planes feel.like they’re made of cardboard, no difference between Ta-152H and A6M5 except Ta is way easier to hit
So let’s give the MG 151/20 the RealShatter treatment, and it should be in par with other cannons.
50s are still great for holding down the trigger from much further away. You can often still win head-ons against 4x Hispano planes just by firing from further away. And headons are the only scenario when being outgunned matters.
Before this last fix, the only way to do damage with the Hispanos was to use ground target ammo, because of its high percentage AP. HE rounds did nothing to a target. Potatoes would have been more effective ammo
What kind of footage? Most I have seen was from the US using 50cals and there it is usually 3-4 bursts in a chase or 1 in a dive so around 300 shells fired which equals around 10-25 50cal hits per pass.
I can not confirm your observations whatsoever outside of high G turnfights.
5-15 20mm cannon hits will destroy any plane and that is fine. Only bombers could sustain more, which is the biggest issue left because Bombers in WT lack all their internal structure which is what made them so heavy and tanky in real life
Yes, for long range shots, that are mostly useless once you reach certain skill level.
The point is - ALL cannons are now too strong,. including MG151/20 - once it gets real-shatter, it’ll be indistinguishible from Ho-5 even though it has over 4 times the explosive filler.
