Everything is awesome.
Including MG151/20.
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1 shell and wingroot goes black. 2 shells at most and the wing flies away it seems.
MG151/20 requires about 4 shells for the same result, however, it only has 4 out of 6 M-geschoss at best with inferior ROF and ballistics compared to Shvak.
MG151/20 finally is effextive vs Yak-3 and La-7. However, right now everyone has equal or superior firepower compared to German and Italian planes. Which means I’m back to flying J2M2 and Yak-3and American/British 20mm armed planes, till someone fixes this.
I wonder of Berezin is back to 20mm levels of power. MG131 IAI is, well, doing damage. Probably too much. But Berezin and japanese MGs were at one point 2-3 shotting people.
Dunno, mg151 seems to work just fine for me
Of course it works. It’s just the worst mid-late WW2 20mm right now and that’s it. Type 99 Mk 2 is back to literally 1-shotting planes f.e. MG151/20 works, just other 20mm work even better, I think it would make sense for Japanese 30mm to have that much hitting power, but not for Shvak or Ho-5 or even M2.
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You can just 1 shot people with MG151 as well, it’s still my favorite gun tbh. And my experience with Shvaks is that they are nowhere near the level realshatter was fixed initially where it just 1 tapped all the time… same goes for other 20mm. They all just work now decently.
There’s no reason MG151 should be the holy grail of guns in the setting of WT with its instructor to keep planes which SHOULD go down after damage that didn’t blow the airframe apart due to heavy HE load, simply won’t because superior FBW technology.
Nearly all planes have about the same rpg and/or ammo load against their respective counterparts and should be more or less equally able to use that. It should never be that some nations are just FAR more effective in Air RB simply because they have gun X, and opposition doesn’t. Or, yes, too bad, you have 240 cannon rounds, but they are hispano, so lol, maybe enough for 4 enemies while enemy team is 16. Design like that will either entirely invalidate certain planes or nations, or result in planes with insane performance sitting on way too low BR because of low ammo or ineffective damage (we already have plenty of examples there).
If anything, when damage is good on all planes, we MAYBE can FINALLY see BR balancing against actual plane performance and get mostly rid of the “more guns = high BR” shenanigans we have across the board.
And yes I fully realize that currently this may result in some imbalance, but that’s nothing a BR change cannot fix and actually should have fixed already but they didn’t because “gun bad/low ammo, so BR stays” on stuff like J2M2, Pyor, or XP50 as examples.
Planes won’t move any time soon. And removing entirely the armanent as a factor invalidates every plane that relies on armanent, which is almost entire Fw 190 and good part of Bf 109 family.
Furthermore, I don’t think there’s any difference between now and “nukereal shatter” we had in early and mid november. 1 Shvak shell - module goes black. 2 and it’s gone. 1 also is enough to wreck an engine.
How did I notice there has been a change? My Fw 190 started behaving like it’s made of china, while enemies ended up with crits.
I’m not saying there should be as big of a damage gap, as pre-patch. But it’s ridiculous how Germany has to “compete” with horrible ballistics, bad belts, bad AP, bad ROF with the only advantage being ammo count.
190 and 109 are still doing just fine today, I don’t see the logic, you should be able to tank hits while your guns should just kill everything? Nah…
Shvaks really aren’t, I’ll record some examples tomorrow… I only have one against a B17 that just tanks sprays from La7, Spit V, and 109, he dies, but his plane doesn’t just blow apart mid air on the first burst, he takes a massive beating to go down. You’ll get plenty of hits and crits in awkward shots and angles where on prior realshatter fix those would be 1 shots. Sure there will be one shots now too, but not to that level. AN/M2 or 3 is also nowhere near the level they once were before realshatter, or after the realshatter fix. They are ok right now and that’s it. Hispano’s kind of the same just better ballistics. MG151 is still very good and comparable, actually better against large targets like bombers/attackers as they have a lot of shrapnel and damage a larger area.
How the damage looks in the hangar isn’t entirely the same how it will work in game. How the DM works in terms of when a plane is considered destroyed also isn’t reflected in the hangar damage view. You can quite literally only go off actual in battle results
Again, shouldn’t get hit to start with… It’s so weird for me to understand how it should be ok to tank hits while you are armed with 2-4 20mm cannons to yolo the headon with complete disregard. One can argue the 190 is build to withstand that to some degree, but so were many other planes in similar roles build to take a beating so that argument is kind of moot. I for one try not to get hit at all in a headon… having damage in any plane is a bad idea to start with, and taking risks unnecessarily isn’t needed, mostly there are a lot of better options than just pressing headon after headon. Taking damage makes me want to hold J because I’m an idiot who misjudged a situation, might as well just blow up mid air
Oh wow, my entire post went to hell.
My points are: 1 hit from Shvak will ruin Fw 190 F8 to the point of instantly having to RTB because you can’t be effextive with black wing or dying engine.
A6M5 becomes a head-on prodigy due to superior firepower and small size.
.50 cals become a laughing stock.
Nukereal Shatter has always been not that great vs bombers (unless 2 shells struck mid wing of B25), but I do not consider advantage vs the least important targets a factor worth consideration.
With current nukereal shatter you can just happily head-on Fw 190 in Yak-3 and expect to win or go 1:1. Forcing head-on will be way more popular defensive tactic vs gunboats because one can negate energy advantage just by going guns blazing. 50/50 chance is worth taking. But that’s assuming anybody will be playing a gunboat. I surely won’t.
Dude, A6Ms are pretty terrible in headons because they are so so slow and just can’t maneuver very well in headons due to poor roll rate, besides being very fragile…
Nah, still good
Yes, lets ignore volume of fire… have fun pushing and committing headons against 4 Hispano / ANM3 / MG151 with a single Shvak, it’s a terrible idea. High chance you just fly into a wall of HE. Best way to do headons, and when to do them, hasn’t suddenly changed
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It’s a great idea because landing 1-2 shells will either kill or take the enemy out of the fight.
It’s not the old gun balance, where indeed 1 cannon (and Berezin godhammers) was not enough to just de-wing anything coming at you.
A6M5 can dodge everything easily, one just has to remember not to overcommit because doing 180 in front of someone is not good for business. And since 6 .50 cals are a laughing stock requirimg like 5 times more.time on target, than Shvak, everyone with cannons will just clap these planes with full confidence.
Which is kinda the other way the should work.
I tested MG 151/20 before the patch and with 3 in a Bf 109 I cut down many B-17s (wings and tails), where as Hispanos took a lot more ammo to take down a He 177 and mostly killed them by Pilot snipes or fuel fires.
I tested Type 99-2 against bombers after the patch and with just 2 they surived many hits, even though you can pretty easily shoot off a bombers elevators.
4 Hispano Mk Vs where now able to shoot of wings and tails just like MG 151/20 before the patch, but I think they still required more hits.
So guns are pretty much working the opposite at the moment.
Against fighter, regular HEF rounds deal so much damage to the structure that you can cut fighters wings or tails like hitting them with Mineshells, while 20mm Mineshells cause much more but less damaging fragmentation over a wide area, since they don’t get realShatter like ADENs.
Mineshells rely on blast and the destruction of a planes structure, thus they lose efficency with increasing size of the plane. Pretty simple concept. Bigger plane, more hit points.
HEF care way less about structure but damage to critical components like pilots, engine, cooling systems and fuel tanks.
If you hit those, size of the plane doesn’t matter that much. Of course more engines and pilots also increase survivability but it’s less extreme than Mineshells.
Against a B-17, 20mm Mineshells are practically party poppers, unless they hit a fuel tank.
It’s often overlooked that a 30mm Incendiary shell was developed in 1944 and used in a 1:1 ratio with Mineshells for Mk 108s. Even though completely useless in WT, these shells weren’t invented just for fun.
While 30mm Mineshells can destroy a B-17s structure, you still need several hits to achive that while a single Incendiairy into the fuel tank is very likely to blow up the tank, or at least set it on fire.
If the 30mm hits its mark, which makes up quite a large era of a 4-engined bomber, it’s much more lethal than the Mineshell.
So Incendiary would still be the best bet to down a large bomber, even for guns firing 30mm Mineshells, while we know for a fact that 30mm Mineshells are obsoultely lethal against small fighter aircraft.
Neither 20mm Mineshells nor HEF should be cutting B-17s into pieces. Their best hope is to set fires to the fuel tanks, take out the engines or pilots or simply cause enough damage to structure and engines to cause it to crash from a lack of power and lift.
Happended to me too :(
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Damage comparison:
Before the change:
Spoiler
20mm Type 99 HEF-T →
Not likely to destroy structure.
Lethal when fragments hit pilot or set fuel on fire.
(Video didn’t work in Spoiler for some reason o_O)
30mm Type 5 Ammo →
Lethal against structure as well as pilot and fuel tanks
After patch:
Spoiler
20mm Type 99 HEF-T:
Lethal against structure.
Lethal hits against pilot and fuel, much less likely than structural.
(Video didn’t work in Spoiler for some reason o_O)
30mm Type 5 HEF-T:
The German WW2 dream. Dismantle heavy bombers while only carrying 30g of explosive.
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You’re talking like MG151 is useless now? They do plenty of damage and you get loads of them…
https://streamable.com/jkjskm
And they currently don’t, none of the 20mms is just “cutting B17s in half”, most of the times you get them to crash for the reasons you mention.
This dude getting battered to hell and back, his plane didn’t fall apart, he lost control of it. Watching the server replay literally everything is black but he is in 1 piece.
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Well, I don’t. I’m saying how 20mm Mineshells damage planes over a greater area compared to HEF, which doesn’t make sense.
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Fuse sensitivity makes them explode pretty much outside of the plane’s structure, so they damage more on the outside of the plane than on the inside. You could argue that MG151 being an outlier here and it should get the same properties as the other guns where damage is more focussed to a single part instead of a wider area… but damage wise, they are completely up there with all the rest of them… UNLIKE the first fix to realshatter where they were very much lacking behind everything else
@Metrallaroja I’m having some people who say ADEN damage went off a cliff in this iteration of realshatter, perhaps worth looking into… lots of hits and useless damage from 30mm HE compared to before. I’ll try get some footage
Been playing the Mirage 2000 5F a lot these past couple of days. Although anecdotal, I did get a good amount of crits that ended up only netting me some assists. It’s not like peak RealShatter damage levels but for a belt full of HE rounds, I kinda expect for it to do a good amount of damage when hitting the tail of a F-16. I’ll try and get some clips as well.
Mg151/20 is very good now, I’m having so much fun using it again.
https://streamable.com/ierl8y
https://streamable.com/5o2dk9
I also noticed how much stronger bombers are compared to our first RealShatter fix, which isn’t bad imo. But perhaps that has relation to higher caliber guns being underwhelming, since the entire issue is related to damage model rather than the guns.
I’ll test MG151/20 and Shvak vs F89B and we’ll see if we’re back to nukereal shatter or not.
IMO we’re back to MG151/20 M-geschoss being behind in o fighter killing potential, while also having inferior belts, ROF and extremely inferior ballistics.
Right now it’s obvious all other 20mm cannons are way superior vs engines, even though it’s M-geschoss that can basically explode on contact with the engine (30cm fuse delay) while everything else explodes when striking the cowling, so it makes absolutely no sense at all.
Also it seems AP engine damage scales very, very poorly with distance, as in - there’s barely any difference between 500 and 1200m impact. And there should be.