I just tested He 177 damage models but, you can rip its tail section
2 Likes
Why should I? Just because some people like something and think they’re right, doesn’t mean they are.
You can also think that I’m wrong but I argue with realism and logic.
Too bad, but that’s just how it is.
If you want to plane go down in an instant, you have to play a flying boat that has so much firepower that it disintegrate stuff in an instant and not a figher that is both manuverable and fast.
You want your four 20mm to hit like a Me 262s four 30mm cannons, but you can not have that.
Either you live with guns that can hit targets and might not instantly destroy them or you have guns that have way lower chance to hit but then destroy the target in few hits.
If you don’t hit vital parts, than the plane is going to keep flying.
Really hard concept to grasp for some people.
I also don’t like to get .50cal sniped by a single bullet from 1km. But that’s just going to happen sometimes, even though it’s not likely.
Of course when I do that, I won’t complain about it.
Sure, the current implementation of damage mechanics and shells is far from perfect and there are many things that could be improved but the current performance of 20-37mm explosive shells with realShatter is quite reasonable.
Should it be less random? Definitely.
Should there be less inconsistency between shells? F Yeah.
1 Like
What guns did you use?
I killed two dozen He 177 in mission selection mode with 20mm Hispanos and I only ever shoot off their wings.
Which makes sense. Destroy spars and the wing comes off, but 20mm HEF shells don’t have the blast power to destroy the structure in any reasonable amount of hits to cut the tail.
I sprayed MiG guns(37mm/23mm)
I tried the 37mm on MIG-17s and I shot off their tails in one 37mm hit all the time.
I think with the increased damage of the 37mm and 23mm, the tail section of the He 177 can be destroyed more consistantly.
4 Hispanos with 50% HEFI deliver a mere 130g explosives pro second while the MiGs 2x23mm alone do 165g and with the 37mm (2/3 HEFI) it’s another 165g.
Probably most prop damage models have no problem, as far as I know.
In the case of jet aircraft, most of them are impossible to rip their tails sections, except for those with huge tail sections like the Mirage IIIs/Kfirs, F-14s, and MiG-29s etc.
I literally sprayed all my ammo(750 rounds) in my T-2 against my friend’s Su-7 and the only thing that happened was fire from the engine and loss of tail control.
Honestly, it is ridiculous to run out all the ammo and still not be able to rip the tail section.
Is it? With how much Gs these Jets can pull with a 1-2 ton Jet engine in the tail, I don’t think it would be possible to destroy their tails under normal cicumstances.
Look at footage from 30mm Mineshells against British planes. They blow up the tail because it’s just hollow and the pressure rips them open like a ballon.
How would that work when the entire tail contains a Jet engine? The round will just pop on the engine, damaging it but it’s not like any rounds are going to cut the engine in half.
Jets are basically Jet Engines with wings. Kinda like Rockets. They don’t even need most of their wings because the engine produces so much thrust to keep the plane flying like a speer.
In the case of the Su-7B/BKL, if the in-game Xray is the same as the DM, it is quite possible that a HE rounds burst in the tail section could cause structural failure because there is literally a hollow section behind the engine.
Also, Mitsubishi T-2/F-1 doesn’t lose its tail wing no matter how damaged it is, unlike the F-4 Phantom II which has pretty similar tail sections like these screenshots.
Seems fix incoming!
2 Likes
Yup! Guns are already fixed in dev server.
You and everyone else saved me a lot of time, huge help with the clips guys.
4 Likes
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Oh nice. Back to unrealistic guns. Cool.
Can’t wait for 4 Hispanos or ShVAKS to to destroy 4-enined bomber from 800m with 50rds.
Or how every hard hitting >20mm cannon is back to be completely redundant based on guns with better ballistics hitting so hard that it makes no sense to even have larger guns mounted on a plane.
It also counts the other way around, you can currently somewhat just tailsit a bomber because his gunners also do nothing much… and since most bombers can’t maneuver, the odds of him surviving also are slim to none. Bombers or other planes that somewhat rely on gunners were a lot better when damage was higher… it isn’t some one-way street here.
I know some people who use attackers/bombers on offensive roles and they also dislike the reduced damage output with a vengeance because they rely heavily on being able to take out fighters quickly with their gunners
That makes no sense now either because the 37mm does no damage :) The only 20mm+ guns that are still decent currently are the MK108 and ADEN, the rest isn’t worth it as damage isn’t there and the low ammo count makes them redundant as primary weapons.
Edit: haha, they again forgot to apply RealShatter to MG151, MK108, and MK103
I guess they don’t have the intention to add these to RealShatter. (When it comes to Mk108 I believe that it’s a great choice)
However MG151 mineshell had it’s fuze sensitivity fixed (from 0.4mm to 0.1mm), meaning that it should be more consistent now compared to before, since it wouldn’t detonate properly making it very inconsistent. I had tested it in dev server and it was decent so far.
On live all cannon damage seems to be back to decent levels and mg151 doing ok compared to rest too. some smaller than 20 guns do respectable amount of damage too. Feels nice but hope fully they dont bring back 0 damage again for some reason.
That’s complete bull because I manged to shoot down many planes with any cannons, 37mm or not.
I was also refering to the future, when after the patch drops 20mm will be so destructive while having much better velocity, RoF and ammo count that it makes every larger cannons worse by default.
Yeah totally ok. 5g TNT is back to destroying a fighters wing in one shot.
Every explosive round is back dealing massive damage to the structure while the fragmentation has remained the same.
The way that guns work now, you could completely remove all fragmentation and you wouldn’t even notice a difference. Just load 100% HE and everytime you hit a plane is destroyed.
I don’t even know how this mechanic is called realShatter when all they do is increase the damage of the round hitting the structure.
The only thing that was necessary to be improved, was having actual consistent fragmentation patterns instead of the RNG non-sense that Gaijin pulled.
A 20mm exploding 50cm from the Pilot shouldn’t result in an instance where he sometimes isn’t damaged at all while other times is instantly killed.
1 Like
yes but its better than 0 to random damage and some guns doing stuff and others not. We will probably get hit with real shatter 4.0 soon at this rate. its rather silly they just cant tone it properly.
2 Likes
I came here to say we’re back to 20mm thermonuclear shells.
MG151/20 M-geschoss is kinda meh now.
But at least soviet aircraft succesfully engage the fuse, that’s nice.
The entire weapon balance (which wasn’t right before this patch either) going OUT the window yet again is pretty damn sad news.
EDIT: When it comes to “hard targets”, like engine, real shatter HE exploding some distance away does as much or more damage than AP. Which is pretty damn ridiculous.
1 Like
They really aren’t, I honestly think the MG151 is doing very very well right now and better than before… guns are more consistent now across the board and they aren’t as deadly as when they initially fixed realshatter which literally just 1 shot everything 80% of the time.
Also, the 12.7-13mm MG with HE aren’t effected much if at all compared to earlier where IAI basically did the same as HEI.
Seems only a good chunk of damage increase is against lighter aircraft, large bombers and alike are still very spongy and can soak up quite some damage before going down. So it isn’t as before that you can down a B17 with a single tap using Shvaks.