They were mentioned earlier when they first introduced them to it, however they did not receive one of the buffs that the 20mms did. (I believe it was the increase in the number of fragments)
Probably to stay more balanced in terms of damage.
I think it more to do with people complaining about the cannons then 50cals.
Fun fact API and APIT both cause HE damage and fragmentation when hitting planes. In gajins world even solid AP (non british ofc) causes HE damage
What made MG151’s so mid was a combination of nerfs we had in the past year or 2.
Rate of fire was decreased from 750 to 700.
The explosive was changed from around 31g of PETN to 29g of HA41. (not sure it’s working as intended)
We have an issue that’s already been reported regarding the mineshell fuze sensitivity of 0.4mm going through wings without detonating. (every other HE ingame has 0.1mm or lower) Also don’t know if the fuze delay of 0.3m is correct either.
The drag nerf to all guns, that affected it a lot, more than many of the other guns.
Again, they aren’t terrible, far from that… but lacking/ a little left behind.
For now we have to wait and hope that it gets added to realshatter so they can tweak it properly.
2 Likes
I’m loving the 20mm changes, Air RB is finally fun to fly again.
It was pretty fun before real shatter. We needed gun balance according to logic and historical facts, not giving everyone but Germany 30mm cannons.
I was always pretty happy with killing people with around 4-10 MG151/20 rounds and considered destroying tail in 2 shots pretty damn stupid. Now every cannon does that and more. A6m5 and Yak-3 are now the toughest, because they are small. Any hit = death. And yes, there were always plenty of random hits. I for one scored a lot of bad hits when I failed to aim properly and nicked my opponent. Killing them this way left a sour taste in my mouth. Now every cannon does that way better than MG151/20.
I am repeating myself, but damage should depend on kinetic and chemical energy at given distance and it should be dialed down so 2 shells do not rip a huge wing off. MG151/20 did not and yet people have ALWAYS claimed.it was hard hitting.
How it can be tweaked when everything kills in 2 shots? They will rip a wing off in 2 shots just the same. Only with way worse ballistics because there were actually ballistic tables for them, so instead of imaginary space magic like in case of Japanese and Soviet guns, we got real life performance.
No matter how often you claim that 12 hits rip wings it will never be true.
Your experience is vastly different from everyone elses so maybe you are the issue
1 Like
Played some games today where I was mainly using the 20mm only (unbinded the mg13 - cause playing G6), and some games 2-3 shots for kills and other 10 and more. So idk anymore, I guess there is something making the gun inconsistent and it feels weird when some German planes have a huge BR increase because of their armament. It feels a lil bit of not fair having a plane for example like Fw190A-8 which has the flight performance of a 4.3 vehicle being at 5.0 because of 4x20mm 151mgs (since let’s be fair, the flight performance is dog water compared to anything at that BR) being out classed by Russian and American planes who do the job better with even less armament and way better performance. That’s what really annoys me with all recent changes.
1 Like
Because that’s how 4 MG151/20 wing mounted works.
If you land 3 consecutive hits to the tail - it rips. if you spread the damage - nothing happens.
With single Shvak I was scoring super-fast kills in custom battles, it’s insane how quickly everything dies if you just manage to land 2 shots to 1 wing it’s gone.
Tails feel like they aren’t even there - click, gone.
Some parts sometimes start magically tanking, because I think even elevator that is no longer there still counts as a part of damage model and causes the shells to prematurely explode. BUt that’s it.
EDIT: Flagged by trolls.
I think it would be healthier if they make almost all 20mm be a bit weaker giving equal oportunity to everyone, well of course where it needs credit for the ammo being good it should be given. Not what it is now… One gun performing relatively balanced and some one tapping people because fun.
1 Like
I also started to test russian fighters and it seems shvak’s are the most damaging guns now.
2 Likes
Every gun is… if you think Shvak’s are damaging now, you haven’t met 4x ANM3 yet. 4B spraying 900 rounds is back. It really doesn’t matter much which 20mm hits you, it’s going to hurt. MG151 HEI hit still going to hurt bad but sure they are a little lacking behind others now (but not much), as will Shvak, Ho5, Type99, Hispano, B20, and so on.
I don’t give a damn if its accurate or not, but this massively improved gameplay.
1 Like
It improved gameplay compared to early real shatter.
It made gameplay way worse overal, demolishing game balance and diversity and increasing willingness of everyone to take a head on, because dodging got way more risky, because 1 shot and you’re dead anyway, better to take the other guy with you.
EDIT: Flagged by trolls.
Don’t agree. Before a lot of fights were luck based on who’s gun worked first.
1 Like
There’s a lot less luck involved, if you have longer time on target required to kill.
F.e. whwn I land a 10-shell burst vs P-51H and it dies - it means I kept my guns on target properly.
If I spam Shvaks, 2 shells land and entire tail departs - it’s a lot more about luck
I was getting more and more 1-burst kills because my gunnery was improving. Right now all you have to do is to land anything to cripple the enemy and land 2-3 shells for a kill.
Which means you score kills with miliseconds on target.
Right now MG151/20 which was destroying tails way too easily for years is the weakest 20mm in game.
Instead of balancing guns in a reasonable way, Gaijin gave everyone 2-shot wonders.
I made some calculations, showing that even with Shvaks hitting with noticeably less force per shell than MG151/20, and with tail HP getting buffed, rime to kill with Shvak would be laughably short anyway. So it’s not like I want to give people water pistols.
No one is asking for the return of early real shatter.
which onetap?
I’m actually pretty good in headons and I see people being a lot more cautious currently with taking them tbh… (including myself) prior a lot of people would just stick it because what if you get hit? Just full commit/recommit after a break. People that do that now tend to just get crit heavily or outright die.
Yes there are still people that just trade, that has been the case in WT since 2013. No amount of gun changes will be able to change that behavior as that takes 2 people doing the exact same thing.
Also I still don’t have issues with MG151, they’ll still do consistently damage. Yes, they are weaker some other 20mm, pretty much on the level of the current Hispano’s tbh, whereas the other 20mms seem to be a little better.
3 Likes
They haven’t learned yet. Spitfire has been v. ineffective in head ons for years. Soviet aircraft used to be quite bad before the Shvak buff but even then they didn’t have ammo to spam since you required multiple hits for an effect.
MG151/20 actually required multiple hits too, but less and you had 500 ammo in Fw 190.
Nowadays you just have to land something to cripple the enemy. I’ll happily force a head-on vs good enemy player in higher ranking plane, no matter what I’m flying nowadays, because chance od going 1:1 is much greater than if I try being creative.
Also no more “slick reversals” where I barely dodge and sometimes I get nicked with some last second single keyboard short - now that shot makes me dead in the water.
And BTW I have considered dodging MG151/20 to be by faaaar the easiest ever since the ballistic nerf, and guess what - MG151/20 is also the only cannon that gives you decent chances of surviving a random shot, while MG151/20 armed planes are also oftentimes in pretty damn bad spot (cough Italy cough) and they simply have no other choice than to pull reversals, because that’s the only way to deny an escape towards AF - forcing Wyvern or La-7 to dive simply means you’re not catching them, you may be safe and dominate the alt - GJ, but you won’t kill anything because they’ll just run to AF even if you have enough alt to eventually catch up to them due to f.e. damage you inflicted with your MGs.
And BTW I’ve been scoring 3 KPB with Fw 190 F8 for a month before real shatter massacred every other 20mm (it used to have nuclear OP MG131 back then, now they are just simply overperforming a lot like every other HMG with HE) I wasn’t playing other 20mm armed planes during early real shatter because I do not enjoy suffering :P
MG151/20 right not has horrible ballistics and requires around twice the amount of shells as Shvak to the same module to ruin it. It also deals super low engine damage, it’s bad vs jets, has bad ROF. But Fw 190 D9, Ta-152H and F8 and most Italian planes are just good gun platforms.
There have been times that soviet guns were bad, but also plenty of times their performance was closer to what it is now if not equal. Especially when you look at the 23/37mm they are nowhere near what they used to do. You still do require multiple hits for results, flown a bunch of soviet stuff and it is rarely “2 shells for the kill” especially against the tanky US stuff like P47s, F4U, F2G, P51H or FW190, Ta152C/H.
Also I flew plenty of MG151 stuff recently, and I still have no issue with those guns. Yes their trajectory sucks a big one, but when you get a burst in… 2-4 shells is what it takes and you can just click on people especially at close range and get pretty consistent results. Much more ammo also allows more liberal use. Sure they need some buff, I’m not denying that, but it’s a far cry from being as useless as some other guns have been in the past…
But you don’t learn from that to stay out of a gun solution entirely(?). Seems a weird approach to me. Sure you do a headon when feasible (have the speed and position to do so safely), because we aren’t giving out any free angles, but to stick it and just force a trade seems a bit, odd.
Outside of the current Re2005 changes, which Italian plane sits in a bad spot? Most of their planes are pretty damn capable and at a reasonable BR I think. G56 may be a bit questionable at 6.3, rather see that drop to 6.0 but then again, that’s not going to change its MM much anyway so it doesn’t quite matter all that much.
I honestly don’t care about being able to do well in a F8, I think you know my opinion on that plane :) I don’t even know if you remember, but you used to think, and we had a discussion about it, that the F8 is bad plane and I told you to go play it with its forward airspawn – and you have ever since then. Told you it isn’t bad, its totally busted on most maps :P
1 Like