This also depends on how much would the ERA get nerfed.
At “friendly” angles and from very low ranges compared to the real life counterpart (<=500m, and this only pretty much applies to the T-80U based MBTs). Gaijin’s “DM53” is a poor man’s representation of the actual projectile, especially in terms of ranges at which Kontakt-5 is a non-issue for it (realistically it shouldn’t even detonate when getting impacted by DM53, meaning its armor value should be just the thickness value of Kontakt-5s steel plates i.e between 20 to 40mm RHAe total…).
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I guess.
The composite armour in the turret is pretty strong even without the ERA.
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T-80U/UK/UE-1/UM2s are quite common in a downtier and like you said, <= 500m, DM53 can punch right through their UFP.
Most maps are CQC within 500m, and so I believe that is quite unfair.
Especially the UK / UE-1 since they are just 0.3 BR lower than the 2A6 / 2A7… with practically no upsides over them.
Yes, at a good downward facing angle i.e from a favorable position. Most tanks also don’t get L/55s with DM53, a lot of them actually get L/44s which don’t pack as much power, even with DM53, and their ranges are cut by half or more.
What Gaijin should do is:
- Fix ERA to work based on attack angle (the 120mm KE flat value is major bullcrap, it should be just the raw thickness of the plates there)
- Add anti-ERA to everything that had it
- Downtier some T-series after decompressing
Of course everything I’ve just pointed out is delusional of me because Gaijin isn’t going to do any of it, especially not the decompression part.
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What do you mean by friendly angles ?
I’ve tried it on a flat ground against 80U and 72B3 and round went through easily.
We’ve gone thru this MANY TIMES OVER, both on this and on the old forum, they don’t unless the barrel is facing downward into the upper plate or you’re scum aiming at upper portions of ERA blocks.
Nothing has changed about both DM53 & the armor of T-series since the last time I tested all of them, so the results aren’t going to change either.
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Within <100/200m, the difference in height and gun-to-enemy-hull is enough to make a reasonable downwards angle alone (without needing any reliance on being in a higher position).
I’ve aimed at various points on the UFP from like ~300m and it went through each time.
Ehh, ~100m is about right, 200m is a bit too far. I remember doing tests against a T-72B3M in my 2A7V a few months ago on Cargo Port on the highway, 250m was already too far out for DM53.
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it is what it is…
why not make the arietes armor artificaly better to bring it on par with russian tanks?
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Ariete’s armor is already artifically nefed because Gaijin doesn’t believe it even had hull composite…
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well there you have it.
its the duality of criteria that makes ppl yell BIAS. and somehow gaijin can prove those ppl right.
From what I calculated, downwards angle caused by the difference in height between gun of leopard 2a7 and the hull of the T-80 is around 0.83 degrees at 100m.
I don’t think that’s enough… so I believe it’s more appropriate to say <50m (~1.66 degrees) or more like <30m (~2.77 degrees).
This isn’t as big of an issue as I thought, but tanking multiple shots would be a lot more difficult after the ERA blows up.
The corners of the front plate of the T-80s also are not covered by ERA.
I’m all for it.
If ERA was effective against KE projectiles - NATO would use it this way. This is just another game mechanic made as a handholding feature for soviet dirt buckets. If not for that - they would be completely outperformed by everything (which they should). Like everybody knows that soviet ERA is just magic armor in the game. If you’re experienced enough with the game - play one match against soviets and pay close attention to your own aiming. Feel that uneasy sensation when aiming anywhere around ERA? Especially driver’s hatch, turret front, hell, even some side shots. That’s it, everybody knows that if you don’t aim at their ERA - the chance of some bull… happening is far from being 0%. Btw soviet trashcan MBTs are the only type of tanks in the game able to tank a side shot in the turret. Guess why?
Let’s say that they get nerfed to their ‘actual’ performance.
One of their main upside (their armour) is gone now.
Wouldn’t that mean that they should be a lower BR?
The T-80BVM would probably be moved down to 11.3, the T-90M would probably go down to 11.3 too, and the T-80UD would move down to 10.0. The T-80UK would go down to 11.3 and the T-80UM2 would go down to 11.0.
Is this what you want?
I think 2A7V / 122B can do the same too.
doesnt gaijin advertize a “realistic game”?
why do other nations tanks have to be real (like the du armor in abrams) and russian tanks can just get a pass?
Nah, you just send it right through the breech or under the turret. Pretty fool proof.
Are you saying that Maus, Ariete, Is-4M, M103, Conqueror etc. etc. - should go down in BR?
I mean, if the ERA facts are true, I’m fine with them changing their ERA’s values and then moving those Russian MBTs down in BR.