RE.2005 MM.495 VDM

1. RE.2005 MM.495 VDM for italy?
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General info

The origins of the RE 2005 project are the same that led to the generation of its direct competitors, such as the Macchi C.205V, C.205N, and the Fiat G.55 Centauro. The Regia Aeronautica ordered two prototypes registered MM.494 and MM.495 as well as a static cell for load tests and assigned to the Reggio Emilia company two examples of DB-605A-1 engines ordered directly from Germany, later this engine was produced by fiat and was called 1050 R.C.58 Tifone.
At the end of October 1942, the second prototype registered MM.495 flew, and immediately afterward it was sent to Guidonia for military flight tests. On November 16 1942 the Ministry announced the first order for 16 airplanes called Series 0. The new aircraft would be assigned the military serial number MM.092343 up to MM.092358.
Several changes were made during development in addition to the fact that there were plans for particular versions which, however, remained only on paper.
Leaving aside the modifications required during the normal performance-enhancing operations of any prototype, the substantial modifications made on subsequent pre-series aircraft mainly concerned the nose. The Sagittario MM.494 was subjected to various changes in the design and shape of the slits, that appeared in the upper part of the hood of the nose and front of the windshield as well as substantial interventions on the canopy. Initially, the windshield was set back, while the dashboard and driver’s seat were moved closer to improve the total visibility of the Pilot. On the pre-series aircraft, a roof further reduced in size was also adopted, which was identifiable by the presence of only two upper lenses instead of the original three pieces. There was also a notable evolution, with relative modifications, for what concerned the armament of the Reggiane aircraft. A first modification was made with three Breda-SAFAT 12.7 mm machine guns placed in the upper part of the muzzle, with one firing through the crankshaft. This configuration was later changed by replacing the central Breda-SAFAT with the 20mm Mauser MG-151/20A cannon and the addition of two other 12.7mm wing weapons.
The Regia Aeronautica approved the solution with five weapons but demanded that the four machine guns all fire through the propeller. Engineer Longhi then suggested installing the two 20 mm Mauser wing guns in the wings, a solution that guaranteed a greater volume of fire and a greater reserve of ammunition. The suggestion was discussed and then adopted in the production setup. Also for the production aircraft, the installation of three external attachment points for bombs and other fall armaments was done.
Another obvious change, that concerned only the prototype aircraft was the disappearance of the cracks in the central section of the flaps - on the MM.494 aircraft - and the adoption of a propeller nose designed by Messerschmitt on the MM.495 model, also known as VDM electric Propeller, that led to the new modified DB605A-1(M) engine.
After the Germans compared 18.02.1943 in Guidonia the G55, MC.205, and the re.2005 with the Bf109G4 and the FW190A5 they concluded to try to modify the re.2005 even if they found out that the G55 had satisfied their requirements better than the re.2005 and was the winner from the competition between the G55, MC.205 and the re.2005.

Side notes: The re.2005 climbed to 6000m without WEP and full power at the same time as the FW190A5 did – 15.4km/h. The re.2005 despite being the second lightest of the four Italian planes had engine issues and structural problems in the tail section, it has been corrected by Reggiane after the test.

On April 25, 1943, the second MM.495 prototype was modified by Officine Reggiane to experiment with a German VDM propeller. A completely original Daimler-Benz DB605A-1(M) engine was also tested including an MW-50 device for water injection and methyl alcohol, as well as changing the rpm limiter and different compression rates.
The re.2005 is considered the last representative built and used in combat of the family Reggiane fighters and the mm.495 VDM is one of the last modified to serve for the Regia Aeronautica.
As for the production activity at the Reggio Emilia plants, with the armistice, the few aircraft present in the factory were immediately requisitioned by the Luftwaffe and this led to the end of the re.2005.

Difference
The differences between the mm.494 and the mm.495 VDM are the canopy structure, the inverted throttle, the originally mounted engine FIAT RA.1050 RC.58 Tifone (licensed DB605A) was exchanged for the modified German DB605A - 1(M) engine (MW-50 system, changed RPM Limiter and different compression rate) and of course the nose part of the plane (The Piaggio P.6001 Propeller was removed and the VDM Propeller was mounted to satisfy the performance of the newly installed German engine) - with a longer air intake.

Armaments/equipment

The Re.2005 MM.495 can be armed with:

Option 1

  • 1 x 20 mm MG 151 cannon, nose-mounted (200 rpg)
  • 2 x 20 mm MG 151 cannons, wing-mounted (200 rpg = 400 total)
  • 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, nose-mounted (380 rpg = 760 total)

Option 2

  • 1 x 20 mm MG 151 cannon, nose-mounted (200 rpg)
  • 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, wing-mounted (380 rpg = 760 total) *
  • 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, nose-mounted (380 rpg = 760 total)

The Re.2005 MM.495 can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

Max possible bomb loadout 680kg

List of types of ordnance for the central beam:

  • Without load
  • 1 x 100 kg bomb GP 100 bomb
  • 1 x 160 kg bomb GP 160 bomb
  • 1 x 250 kg bomb GP 250 bomb
  • 1 x 420 kg bomb GP 420 bomb
  • 1 x 480 kg bomb GP 480 bomb
  • 1 x 500 kg bomb GP 500 bomb
  • 1 x 630 kg bomb GP 630 bomb

List of types of bombs for wing joists:

  • Without load
  • 2 x 50 kg GP 50 bombs
  • 2 x 100 kg GP 100 bombs
  • 2 x 160 kg GP 160 bombs

List of types of ordnance for the central beam + wing joists:

  • Without load
  • 1 x 250 kg GP 250 bomb + 2 x 160 kg GP 160 bombs
  • 1 x 420 kg GP 420 bomb + 2 x 100 kg GP 100 bombs
  • 1 x 480 kg GP 480 bomb + 2 x 50 kg GP 50 bombs
  • 1 x 500 kg GP 500 bomb + 2 x 50 kg GP 50 bombs

Specifications

  • Engine: 5.8 km full pressure height
  • Originally DB 605 A -1: Standard version with ~1477 hp take-off power in 0 m, maximum ~1590 hp emergency power at 2.1 km
  • Modified engine by the Germans for the re.2005 MM.495 - DB 605 AM: like 605 A-1, but with a different compression rate and MW-50 system up to ~1815 HP special emergency power at 0 m and ~1700 HP on maximum power with MW-50 injection
  • Propeller: VDM electric propeller
  • Vmax at 7300 m: ~720 km/h while in horizontal flight
  • Vmin: stall speed at 155(flaps 136) km/h
  • Wing surface: 20.4 m²
  • Wing load: 174.5kg/m²
  • RoC : 20m/s*
  • Empty Weight: 2,600kg (With armor)
  • Equipment: 520kg
  • Liquids: 440kg(fuel=400kg, oil=40kg), 630l*
  • Max Take-Off Weight: 3,560kg (Without bombload)

Why you want to see it in game

First of all, we don’t need to build this plane from scratch, because it is a modification of the re.2005 Serie 0, that we have in-game. The re.2005 mm.495 VDM would make a great addition to the Italian TT because it would add a 5.7-6.0 agile competitive fighter, that is fast and CAS capable too, with a big variety of bombs to hit ground targets. And last it is a native Italian plane, which makes it unique and needed for the Italian TT.

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Sources

Books:

  1. Sergio Govi dal RE 2002 al RE 2005
  2. REGGIANE 2005 «Sagittario» LE MACCHINE E LA STORIA PROFILI
  3. I Reggiane Dall’a Alla Z - Descrizione Tecnica Degli Aerei Reggiane Gruppo Caproni
  4. Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario Aviolibri 004
  5. Reggiane Re 2005 Ali d’italia
  6. The Secret Horsepower Race: Western Fighter Engine Development
  7. FRANCESCO GRECO IL MOTORE AERONAUTICO FIAT 1908 -1945

Manuals :

  1. Bericht über Jagdflugzeug-Vergleichsfliegen bei der ital. E-Stelle in Guidonia
  2. DISEGNI DRAWINGS REGGIANE RE2005 SAGITTARIO REGIA AERONAUTICA AIRCRAFT
  3. AERONAUTICA Reggiane Re2005 Sagittario 1943 1a Serie
  4. STATO MAGGIORE R. AERONAUTICA ARMAMENTI AEREI V REPARTO CARATTERISTICHE VELIVOLI ITALIANI

Links:

  1. Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario - Comando Supremo
  2. Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 AM
  3. Daimler-Benz DB 605
  4. https://www.meiermotors.com/index.php/aircraft/klassische-motoren/mercedes-benz-db605?showall=&limitstart=
  5. Luftschraube VDM, 3-Blatt
  6. FW 190 A-5 Performance
  7. Spezifikationen: Fw 190 A-5
14 Likes

Lots of weapon options! +1

1 Like

Better version of my favorite prop +1 of course, would love to see it as a researchable plane in the TT.

2 Likes

Yes +1

2 Likes

Thank you very much Gaijin and every body who supports this suggestion 😊

1 Like

+1

1 Like

Damn yes. +1

1 Like

+1 It’d be a very effective, yet easy and cheap aircraft for Gaijin to implement

2 Likes

I’ve been waiting for this plane ever since I saw it on the old forum. If we can’t have the Re.2006, then this is the next best thing. +1

5 Likes

Yes PLEASE

2 Likes

+1

Despite i like the proposal - i would prefer a “re-nerf” of the flight model / turn performance of the already existing Re 2005. Everybody who has flown the “old” 6.0 Re 2005 - so before the engine AND FM nerf and downtier to 5.3 - will agree that the turn got much worse. Especially when you have used joystick instead of mouse - the agility was gone - in direct comparison the new 5.3 version flies like a brick.

Seeing the increase of the BR of the nerfed Re 2005 from 5.3 to 5.7 and now to 6.0 is just a sign of plain stupid US/GB pilots and some decent pilots still flying the Re 2005. So without a change of the flight model you will still have an artificially nerfed plane - so if you upgrade the standard version, the upgrade will have the same nerf.

Btw - even in case gaijin will adopt the “new” version - expect a BR of 6.3 or 6.7.

And for gaijin: Despite i decided to spend not a single cent at this broken game on this account - i would actually pay for a “re-nerfed” flight model if it would be implemented in the already existing and this “upgrade” version - but only then. It was no real fun to fly several thousand games at 6.0 mainly versus F-80s and Meteors - but the fun to clap LF Mk 9s and 14s was worth my time…

3 Likes

Engine nerf was made because the engine of the Re.2005 was completely broken and heavily overperforming. If you used MEC you could get a climb rate of over 35 m/s, as seen in this video by AdamTheEnginerd.

On top of this, if I’m not mistaken, the engine had been incorrectly modeled to be a DB-605AM already, instead of the normal DB-605A, meaning that even without the MEC trick the engine was overperforming in horsepower. With the now more correct engine specifications, the Re.2005 has a worse PWR than, for example, the Bf 109 G-2, so worse climb and acceleration is definitely expected.

With the original nerf, Gaijin decreased the wing span of the plane in the FM, giving it horrible MER. I assume that this is the FM nerf you are referring to. However, this has already been fixed. The wings of the Re.2005 have been the correct span for quite a while now actually, and it does not have any other artificial FM nerf that I am aware of.

3 Likes

Flight model seems to be correct now, the problem is (as with all Italian props) the br. 6.0 in a plane that has the same engine as a Bf-109g2 is laughable. Should be 4.7

4 Likes

Exactly my point, it is just not a problem of FM or engine performance now, simply the BR should be lower.

4 Likes

I was aware of that - so i had no prob with the HP nerf - but the FM nerf was insane. I mean i killed adam at least 2 times in a forced headon (and survived) - and besides his annoying “classic roll from side to side” i loved his vids - his j21a vid was a great help. Btw - J21a was op at BR 3.0 - but crap at 4.3…

So if two of you are confirming that they fixed the flight model it might be time for a revisit. I flew the IT P-47 D-30 at 5.0 because i can at least disengage at will - and the airbrake helped a lot vs F4Us trying " classic rolls from side to side" in the Ju288 “black hole”.

The artificial “overtiering” of Italian props is imho just the result of the niche position of Italy and this totally braindead BR setting policy (simple average, not technical plane performance) favoring the US market - i remember the G56 with 50k+ repair cost fighting vs hordes of A2D-1s…

Thx for the update of the FM!

2 Likes

Great suggestion, happy to see it reuploaded. +1 of course.

2 Likes

+1 we need all the prototypes and versions ! italy needs this plane

3 Likes

+1 would love to see it added

2 Likes